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need help to plumb a charcoal canister

Discussion in 'Projects, mods, restoration' started by mopar56, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. mopar56

    mopar56 Active Member

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    My son has a 1970 Plymouth Duster, as you will know there were virtually no emission standards short of a pcv valve back then, the problem I have is the car vents fuel smell after shut of for days then eventually fades away but we park it in a attached garage so the smell gets into the house sometimes , the solution I have come up with is to install a simple charcoal canister on it, but there is a few road blocks, first the car is not fully stock, the fuel tank is in it is from a 71 dart, the first and only ( I believe ) year to use four vent nipples on the tank, also the car has a aftermarket Edlebrock 4bbl carb but it DOES have a bowl vent which is currently open, my plan is to plumb three of the for lines in to a aluminum manifold, ( I have one I could picture ) then the forth run to the vent line along the fill tube ( already there ) and run a vent line up to a charcoal canister donated by what ever we can get from the local pick n pull probably a late seventies something, I know they have a monaco there then run the bowl vent to the canister where do I run the third line? do I need a check valve?, I do have some if needed, how dose my idea sound so far?
     
  2. mopar56

    mopar56 Active Member

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    so I should probably mention three of the four vent lines at the tank are currently capped off this does not affect the performance in any way but dose seem to hinder getting gas in the tank as it spits back probably due to lack of venting, I think a lot of the smell is coming from the bowl vent so just running that to a charcoal canister should make a big difference right away but I want to vent the tank through there to, I see on drawings posted on the net some canisters have vacuum going to them but cant see how that would work with out it trying to pull fuel instead of vapors through, lastly for any one wanting to comment on emissions tampering, no need as the car never had any to start with and I am in BC Canada there are no laws against removing/tapering with emissions on old cars and in this case I am trying to add something.
     
  3. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    If you can smell fuel for more than about 5-10 minutes after shutdown, the bowl vent is not your problem. Something else is letting a larger quantity of fuel liquid or vapor out. Is it hard to restart hot?
     
  4. AHBGuru

    AHBGuru Active Member

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    The later ('85-89) Diplomat/Fury Pursuits used a vacuum-controlled purge valve on the Quadrajet cars, but it doesn't look like they used one with Carters. They did start to use a vacuum-controlled snorkel flap sometime around 1978-80 in California cars, and then police packages, through 1989. I don't think you'll need or want that kind of restriction.

    Below is a link to vacuum diagrams for the F Body, all years, all motors, all applications. To me, I think Figure #21 is about what you need. Just a very basic outline. Use a solid M body canister for the 2 bbl 318, not the police version that ends in "010". If all you can find is the 010, order the purge valve to go with it, and just run a ported vacuum line to it. The bowl vent line would then run into the valve, and out from the valve to the canister. If note, that particular canister has different routings from most of the others, so if you get stuck using that system, find a vacuum diagram for any QJet squad from '85-89.

    | Repair Guides | Vacuum Diagrams | Vacuum Diagrams | AutoZone.com (at http://www.autozone.com/repairguides/Dodge-Aspen-Volare-1976-1980-Repair-Guide/Vacuum-Diagrams/Vacuum-Diagrams/_/P-0900c15280087a8a )
     
  5. mopar56

    mopar56 Active Member

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    well Bob you are correct about the bowl vent because I plugged it off last night and today it still smells of fuel, it is not hard to start hot, I found out my son was messing around with the tank last week and may have broken the sealer I had applied around the gas tank filler tube grommet so that might be part of where the smell is now however before that there was still a smell after the engine was shut off so I believe installing a charcoal canister is the answer, AHB guru, thanks for the vacuum maps I believe map number 9 could apply to, the thing I don't understand is most of the maps show vacuum coming from the carb, why is this? would it not try to pull fuel from the tank through the vent hose?
     
  6. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    Why was there a sealant around the gas tank filler tube grommet? You can replace these for about $20, they are the same part number for all Mopars for the last 50 years, and are easy to replace.
     
  7. mopar56

    mopar56 Active Member

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    The Sealant was there because I couldn't locate a filler grommet anywhere except on line and at the time of the tank installation there wasn't time to order one, the one we had was not as soft as a new one so we used a sealer called "gasoila" which as the name says is just for that, there had never been a problem but for some reason my son had lowered the tank just a little bit a while ago and I think he may have disturbed the sealer so for now I will get him to re-apply some more but I agree we should and will obtain a new one although there has never been any wetness around the filler grommet..
     
  8. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    Dealers have always carried them. Make sure to lube them only with engine oil. Other lubes may degrade it.
     
  9. AHBGuru

    AHBGuru Active Member

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    Some of the later canisters, including the M bodies, used sealed canisters with purge valves or like previously noted, external purge valves. The vapors went from the carb to the canister, and were held there until the engine was restarted, when ported vacuum opened the valve and releasing the vapors to the carb and tank. Those cars also had a 1/4" vapor line teed from the fuel filter. The idea was to reduce fuel percolation and vapor lock.

    You have an Edlebrock, which is essentially a copy of the Carter AFB, which preceded the ThermoQuad. The Edlebrock isn't a model of efficiency. They're set up on the rich side of the mixture equation. Perhaps not to the extent that most Holleys are, but not as lean 'n clean as the TQ. You can jet them down leaner,and swap out the metering rods to lean out the power side, but they really weren't designed with emissions in mind. The TQ and Qjet were. Regardless, they had many types and even numbers of canisters, and the last I had known of, just the M body cans were still available from Mopar. These are sealed. I had a '79 St Regis squad with a 360 and TQ, and that car had dual open-bottom canisters with more hoses than anything I've ever seen. You could change the filters in the bottom of those canisters.

    The M body Diplomat and Fury squads were sealed up tight. They had two thermostatically controlled air flaps - one to bring warm air in while cold, the other is the previously mentioned vapor barrier that opened while running,and closed when off.

    If you have trouble containing those fumes beyond the filler tube and bowl vent, you might try to find an M-Body 4bbl air cleaner (boneyard only). Old cars do stink quite a bit more than newer cars. You may only be able to clean it up so much.
     
  10. mopar56

    mopar56 Active Member

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    Bob, I don't know where you live but if I go into my dealer and ask for anything older than 1990 I get laughed at literately, my best bet is always to supply them with a part number but still all old stuff is obsolete, I can only find this on line, either way for now it is sealed up around the grommet,, as far as the cannister goes my son is going on a small road trip over the next couple days that will take him past many auto wreckers including the one that currently has the 74 Duster that was destroyed in a accident last year, it has the exact cannister I want in it but the fellow who owns the wrecker that bought the car doesn't want to part out the car as he " has plans " for it, but I really don't see him needing the charcoal canister so my son is going to ask him again, failing that he should find one some where, I hope.
     
  11. mopar56

    mopar56 Active Member

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    AHBGuru, you are right about the Eddy carb being on the rich side, and that is ok, a rich burn well running is fine, the engine isn't stock anyway, there is also an aluminum intake, different heads etc, we need the flow when running and fortunately the bowl is vented as many Eddys are not so we can at least plumb it into a cannister, it is the raw fuel smell after shut off that we are trying to rid, hopefully my son will find a cannister so we can get it plumbed soon.
     
  12. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    I went to my local dealer in southeastern Massachusetts for the grommet in 2007, for my 1992 Daytona. They were courteous and friendly, told me it was the same part since the 1960s, and had it in stock for about $18. I kept that car until 2009, and then bought a 1993 Daytona, which I took in for parts and service, and they were always willing to work on it, are friendly and interested in these survivors. They never refused to work on it or try to get parts, or laugh at my efforts to do so. That may not be the norm, but we have a great dealer.
    You can buy the grommet at Rockauto.com.
     
  13. mopar56

    mopar56 Active Member

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    Well your right Bob your dealer defiantly gives better service, although I guess I can understand why they don't bother up hear because really its all about the new model stuff that is where the money is, any way I checked out Rock Auto's site, and well they do offer prices in CAD funds and offer shipping which is great, unfortunately its the shipping/brokerage that cranks up the price by the time it lands here so I always try to obtain stuff locally first if I can as most all of the manufactures that make parts for places like Rock Auto also supply parts to parts stores up here, however I could not see an OEM style filler neck gasket only universal ones and they all look different not like the OEM double lip style, you don't happen to have a part number do you?
     
  14. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

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    Not to distract from the topic, but I saw help and charcoal, and I was like FINALLY, a subject in Allpar Help that I can really really help out with. I was thinking of all kinds of recommendations, Weber, Cajun Bandit, Beef Chuck, sausages...

    I was right there...
     
  15. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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  16. mopar56

    mopar56 Active Member

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    Well Muther, maybe we will talk as I did just purchase a smoker:D, Bob Thanks, the reason I didn't see it on there website is that it isn't listed for a A body, just newer stuff maybe it could work however the inside diameter says 1.6 in I will have to measure the fill neck but I think it is more like 2 inches, however if it could work I can get Spectra and Dorman parts here easily, I will check in to it, thanks
     
  17. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    I have the grommet from Rockauto right at home now, can measure the inside diameter and other dimensions late tonight when I get home.
     
  18. mopar56

    mopar56 Active Member

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    thats great I will do the same thanks Bob
     
  19. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    Oops. Was out late last night and forgot. Will email myself a reminder tonight.
     
  20. mopar56

    mopar56 Active Member

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    No problem, the one in the Duster measures approx 2" so unless the grommet is designed to stretch then I think the ones made by Spectra and Dorman are too small.
     

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