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Neon returning as stopgap?

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by AdminDave, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. npaladin2000

    npaladin2000 LOAD "*",8,1

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    Class and Luxury? Come back from Mopar-Oz, please, the Sweater-Wizard is out for the day. Normal people don't think of Chrysler as "premium" or "class" or "luxury."

    Seriously, there's such a huge disconnect between Mopar fans and the general buying public it's scary sometimes.
     
    suzq044 and dmcdonald like this.
  2. Robert Johnson

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    The ST is a total scream to drive and I finally rode in an RS yesterday..........I am still trying to un-flatten my eyballs. The thing just explodes across an intersection...... The ST is plenty for me.
     
  3. BobbiBigWheels

    BobbiBigWheels The "Front-Line" Perspective

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    I stand by decent - the vehicle has the worst torque steer I've ever encountered. It is borderline dangerous.
     
  4. dmcdonald

    dmcdonald Well-Known Member

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    Nobody is suggesting they make something that is mediocre. There have been lots of people assuming things based on bias but those here who have seen and driven the Tipo have actually spoken very well of it. Those of us who have not had any direct hands on experiences with the Tipo will have to wait to see how it translates.
     
    #964 dmcdonald, Jan 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2017
    freshforged likes this.
  5. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    I realize I keep repeating myself, but I'm hoping some FCA mole will get the message and pass this on to marketing. The old Compass and Patriot were used as entry level vehicles in the absence of the Caliber, and that is even after the Dart showed up. The new Compass will have a base model with an Aisin six-speed auto and 2.4 Tigershark four. That is so wrong, and just as wrong as the 1.4 Turbo in the base Renegade for the NAFTA market.

    Shut down the boutique Fiat outlets and sell Fiats in the CDJ dealerships. If the 500X had the new Compass base drivetrain in something along the profile of the VW Dune, FCA would have an alternative to cheap Jeeps. Definitely add the Tipo to the Menu.
     
  6. jerseyjoe

    jerseyjoe Plymouth Makes It

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    I agree, got to wait. Really don't want to point fingers but there was a bunch of stuff written that could have been interpereted that way. That could set a bad undertone.
     
  7. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
    Level 2 Supporter

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    And yet, here you are. Or are you not a Mopar fan?
     
    Ian likes this.
  8. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Perhaps you should listen more to Sergio. Sergio, while not necessarily saying "premium" said that the plan for both 200 and the new minivan was to get larger margins. They were no longer interested in the low cost models. The same strategy had already been applied to the 300. So the new 200 came out with dreams of higher prices and margins than the outgoing 200, but they did not offer features (take your pick: styling, usable space, etc.) to justify the prices and margins they expected and substantial discounts followed, then a Sergio fit and the 200 was cancelled. The new minivan has followed the same plan, seeking higher prices and margins. It's way too soon to say if the van will have more success than the 200 moving up-market (or to higher margins in Sergio speak).

    So while you sit there and condemn "Mopar fans", at least listen to what Sergio has said. When Sergio talks about higher margins for Chrysler, the only way there is with more premium products than are currently offered. But yet at the same time he wants Chrysler to be "mainstream" vehicles. So perhaps the confusion is not in the Mopar fan's mind but in Sergio's contradictory at times statements.
     
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  9. npaladin2000

    npaladin2000 LOAD "*",8,1

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    Indeed I am, but I like to maintain my grasp on reality at the same time. I want FCA to succeed but I know the best way to succeed is to cater to general consumers, rather than fans.

    When Sergio talks about higher margins, why do you assume that means raising the price on the car and making it more whatever? Maybe he's talking about reducing costs in order to increase margins. Cheaper parts that he can still charge the same amount for. There's a lot of ways to increase margins, and making cars more "premium" is only one of them. Then again, that's that fan blind spot I'm talking about. You care about what you want. In some ways I'm guilty of that too, the difference is that I'm at least aware of it. Sergio has to be aware of it too, he can't listen to what a few Allpar-ites want. He needs to find out what the general run of consumer wants. You know, the people who are actually going to go and buy one of these things (I assume that's not you in this case...that might almost have been me but I'm leaning towards the new Compass instead).
     
  10. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Here's why it's not about where the car or components are made. Labor costs aren't that significant to the overall price of the car. You could assemble a car with no-cost labor and probably save no more than $2k (about 1/2 the costs of rebates and incentives on many models). If you think there are still huge cost savings in procurement without sacrificing quality, more power to you. There's just not that much more to squeeze out of costs - and they haven't had great luck commonizing parts between brands because no one wants crappy Chrysler/Dodge parts in their European branded car. All that means you've got to deliver something the customer will pay more money for. That's what Sergio said the 200 and Pacifica were going to do - command higher prices than their outgoing models. Your problem isn't with me, it's with Sergio's statements.
     
  11. Stratuscaster

    Stratuscaster Vaguely badass...
    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    In regards to the Tipo - whether it comes here in Fiat, Dodge, or Chrysler branding - what market segment are you looking to pinpoint with it?

    And with the incoming leadership of the country being quite vocal about applying tariffs and fees on anything NOT built in the US - how does that affect the Tipo?
     
  12. GasAxe

    GasAxe Well-Known Member

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    To tag on to @valiant67 , Sergio has always been hot to trot about partnering with other OEMs to increase parts commonality and help reduce production costs. However, there is a baseline cost to produce a vehicle sold in NA. FCA vehicles can't survive on sales volume because they are not massive enough to sell any single low margin model at a rate of 3-400,000 units a year. The smart, and frankly only option is to increase a vehicles perception of value, real or otherwise, to the consumer. Since selling on quality is a decades long commitment before payoff, more immediate measures are needed usually in the form of style or engineering. I think it was posted in this thread earlier, but the 2005 300 was a visual stunner and commanded a "premium" even though the interior was a large step back from the 300M.
     
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  13. Christopher

    Christopher Socially Unacceptable
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    I'm going to disagree with you. I think having Fiat in the same showroom would weaken the CDJ brand. Right or wrong, Fiat doesn't have a good reputation in this country. I don't think that kind of association at the showroom level would be good.
     
  14. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    Problem is FCA US has a huge hole in their current lineup and I am not talking about the number of car models I am talking makes. With the huge shuffling around of brand, Dodge is now a performance brand, Chrysler is supposed to be the mainstream brand, Jeep is the SUV, 4X4 and luxury brand. There is no general luxury brand offered by the FCA US group. Fiat is a starter brand, lets face it with vehicles like the 500X, 500L, 124, and 500. Alfa Romeo is somewhat luxury and performance but it would be a far cry to see a Chrysler buyer shop Alfa. Maserati is too expensive for the common people. But FCA has a plan similar to what Ford did to the Ford brand when it eliminated Mercury. That's offer their mainstream brand both mainstream trim models and then offering luxury trim levels. Similar to the Titanium models on Ford. Biggest problem is FCA US' indentity crisis. Hopefully, all the new models coming out in the next 5 models years will solve that issue. Then the issue will be, making sure that all the products don't get refreshened at the same time and keeping people coming back into showrooms.
     
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  15. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Yet the Fiat 500 won a dependability award in 2016. From my experience, the people that seem to bad mouth Fiat the most are actually "Mopar guys" that simply do not want to accept that Fiat and Chrysler are joined at the hip. They also have no clue that the Fiat 500 sold on the US had an engine built in Michigan and the car itself was built at the same plant that built the Neon and PT Cruiser.

    It's easy to be negative when your head is in the sand.

    Mike
     
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  16. Rick Anderson

    Rick Anderson Well-Known Member

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    I'm NOT your average car buyer, so my view isn't mainstream. It wouldn't bother me seeing Fiats on the CDJ Dealers Showroom floor. It wouldn't get me to buy one, but it wouldn't keep me from buying a new CDJ vehicle.

    Considering everything I complain about with ignorant consumers and the buying public, I have to consider seeing Fiats on the showroom floor might clue people into Fiat Partnership with CDJ and perhaps turn ignorant consumers off, thinking CDJ vehicles are rebadged Fiats.
    Hmmm, but the quality of several models of vehicles, might make a "Luxury" trim version of that vehicle a very attractive luxury car. I.e. Jeep is now selling luxury vehicles. The 300 is suppose to be that also, but its going away eventually, isn't it?

    But, I'm arguing the old approach toward performance cars to the branding should now be the approach to luxury. Dodges were mainstream cars with a few performance models and performance trim levels to a lot of their mainstream models. So at the least, the reshuffling has left a new hole in the lineup, I can see what your saying.
     
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  17. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe one should make a question of the day:
    Which of this vehicles that use the 2.4 engine, assembled in plants outside U.S.A./Canada, has more parts content made in U.S.A. or Canada? a) Fiat 500X, b) Dodge Journey or c) Ram Promaster City van ? :)
     
    Mike V. likes this.
  18. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    The problem is the early Fiats that came to the US from FCA had quality issues. One year of bad quality takes a decade of improving product to overcome. I know several people, and I am one too, burned by the first Fiats back here and now out of consideration for another Fiat.
     
    eastcoaster likes this.
  19. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Not denying, just showing that they have improved and I still stand by my comment that there are haters that are going to hate just because they can.

    Mike
     
  20. Rick Anderson

    Rick Anderson Well-Known Member

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    A 2016 award, while certainly a positive improvement, doesn't erase a reputation in the publics eye, they are still climbing up hill. And you pretty much acknowledge that.

    Honestly, I think the styling and size is a problem, and its just not appealing to U.S. buyers.

    But, some of the pictures I've seen in the thread, the Tipo and especially a Tipo with a Dodge/Chrysler Facelift, does look like something that is styled to appealed to the U.S. buyer.

    Personally, I'm still puzzled why I can't go to a sports car Dealership and shop Dodge/Ford/Chevy and Import Brands offering for sports car. Or an off-road dealership. So that is also why I'm puzzled why Fiats on the lot of CDJ dealer would hurt CDJ sales. I know I'm wrong on this, but it simply doesn't make sense to me why this doesn't work. I guess if you come in for an FCA vehicle, they want you to leave with an FCA vehicle and not take a chance on leaving with a Chevy that caught your eye instead. Of course, that precludes someone coming in for a Chevy might not leave with a Dodge instead. And putting Fiats in the Dodge Dealers? They'll leave the dealer with an FCA vehicle regardless, putting Fiats on the lot would prevent people from coming in to the dealership altogether?
     

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