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New Grand Wagoneer design

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by 12soldier, Sep 3, 2020.

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New Grand Wagoneer design

This poll will close on Oct 14, 2020 at 5:44 PM.
  1. No thanks

    21 vote(s)
    15.3%
  2. Yes, please

    46 vote(s)
    33.6%
  3. Almost, but not quite

    70 vote(s)
    51.1%
  1. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    UN4GTBL and ScramFan like this.
  2. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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  3. Ryan

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    I don’t know if anyone should be judging the price point based on design alone. It’s very hard to make a large vehicle look interesting. Only Range Rover has nailed that, as far as I can tell. The Mercedes GLS, BMW X7, Cadillac Escalade ... none of those look like anything except a larger version of the brand’s other SUVs. There is no “soul” there either.

    I think the people who want a retro throwback to the old Wagoneer are likely a very small minority within the full-size luxury SUV target demographic. This is the vehicle to signal the future of Jeep - electrified, connected, and luxurious, not one that hides all that with a thick layer of nostalgia.

    Edit: The original SJ was much smaller than this. So of course proportions will be different. 186.4” long and 74.8” wide. Today, it would slot between the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee.
     
    #43 Ryan, Sep 6, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  4. sickboy

    sickboy Well-Known Member

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  5. sickboy

    sickboy Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, we already know the answer to that.
    The grand wagoneer seems to thrive In an era of excess. I can see these things pulling boats around, just so you know they have a boat.
     
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  6. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    I think there’s a nice balance between a “thick layer of nostalgia” and where we actually landed that would’ve been just fine.
     
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  7. suzq044

    suzq044 Resident Photoshop Nerd

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    So, the lack of soul in competitor cars is a good reason to have lazy design?

    The thing is, they keep throwing the SJ model in our faces. Why not bring more of that style? I'm not asking for retro. Just better, more throw back than a logo or a date that you see when you open a door.

    For all the history they're going on and on about, they forgot that there are people, now, paying that much for the old models. Why not at least throw a design related bone back that way.

    Like I said, it needs more Wagoneer in the design than it does. Not a fully retro design, but something other than a cop out.
     
    #47 suzq044, Sep 6, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  8. cygnus

    cygnus Well-Known Member

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    It can be done. It's not easy.

    Here's an idea - the wheel trapezoid is TOO TIGHT. Look at Grand Cherokee and then look at Grand Wagoneer. The Trapezoid wheel outline is too close to the body. PRONOUNCE the trapezoid/give it shoulders like the Hummer H3/Wrangler has.
     
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  9. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    Sometimes I feel that companies already have the redesign, which often looks better and sharper, ready to go. They obviously know that they can count on initial buyers and that 2 or 3 years later it will get harder to keep the momentum going. That's when the redesign needs to help. So I wonder if some restraint in the beginning is calculated so that throughout the lifetime they can keep momentum going with a redesign.

    Have to admit though, after the Bronco I was hoping for a bit more Wow from Jeep.
     
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  10. Ryan

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    I’m saying that large vehicles inherently look more bland because there is more surface area. Making one look classy means not overdoing the design elements like Lexus and Infiniti do, which means more blank space. Thus, the “bland” appearance. I will take classy and understated over obnoxiously stylized any day.

    Even the QX80 and LX aren’t very stylish on sides because there isn’t much you can do with so much space, and I consider these to be the most overdone designs in the segment. Admittedly, that’s because they are both old vehicles so I suspect we’ll see some radical redesigns soon.

    1E25F68E-FFA5-4295-B1CA-5C5F27FD3084.jpeg 8953442B-4F1E-46A6-8F97-3038E7973ED8.jpeg

    Compared to more subtle, but classy design:

    85EC6EE6-BE17-40D9-899E-1F9FCF14B797.jpeg
    721797CB-5C92-4BD7-BC79-AACEA24C3759.jpeg
    719063C7-4A7A-4BE8-92E0-32890110F895.jpeg

    Not being retro is not lazy design. It’s just not the direction some people wanted.
     
    #50 Ryan, Sep 6, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  11. MIKE3187

    MIKE3187 Active Member

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    I have to wonder if the design direction isn’t so it fits in line with the Grand Commander in the Chinese market lineup.. assuming it’s being sold there, that could be part of the shift to a design less heritage-rich
     
  12. suzq044

    suzq044 Resident Photoshop Nerd

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    Not really, the this thing is essentially a suv'd ram with Jeep parts and design. The ram looks great, but for some reason this design is awkward as hell.. and a lot of it is in the rear. Just because it's a unique and memorable 'feature' doesn't mean it's good.

    And I didn't say I wanted retro. In fact I said I don't want or expect retro. A couple times.

    (Edit: Swype is making me look like I speak English as a second language today)
     
  13. gforce2002

    gforce2002 Well-Known Member

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    The irony is that with the original design, the template was already there to give it more soul. Heck, even Ryan’s edit that gave it a taller grill and closer to original D pillar is a much better nod to the original design. I think the Challenger is an excellent example of pulling certain elements in the styling that immediately make you think of the original, yet when placed side by side look very much different. If the intention is specifically NOT to reference the original design, like Suzq said, why keep bringing it up and why give it such an historic name?
     
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  14. Chris mopar

    Chris mopar Well-Known Member

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    I have had mixed feelings on the GW exterior style until I see photos of the competition, then I think it looks pretty good. To me it looks more like the Range Rover then the others which I feel is the best looking of the large SUV’s.
     
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  15. cygnus

    cygnus Well-Known Member

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    Funny that no one in this thread who is defending the design has posted a photo of the Yukon AT4.
     
  16. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    I don’t think it would’ve had to have been retro styling in order to incorporate styling cues from the original. They could’ve done a modern interpretation of the original in line with what an evolution of the original would look like today had it continued uninterrupted. Granted that styling might not translate that well to a vehicle that’s larger than the original.

    Here’s the issue with resurrecting iconic names. If you create a new vehicle that really has nothing in common with the old one, then what is the point of resurrecting the name? If you’re going in a new direction, why not choose a new name to go with it? It just seems like tone deafness on their part, especially when they kept showing pics and videos of the original vehicles...which this one has little in common with. I think that’s why people were so up in arms when they produced a new Cherokee which had little in common with the original.

    I don’t mind resurrecting older names, but if it was a well-loved iconic vehicle and the name is used for something dissimilar, then I can understand why people may be upset by that. Personally, it doesn’t matter that much to me, but I don’t fault those who it does matter to them.

    The people who are the target customers for this vehicle will be old enough to remember the original. Whether or not it will matter to them, that remains to be seen.
     
    #56 Zagnut27, Sep 6, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  17. Ryan

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Yeah, that's not a coincidence. That ugly pig-nosed abomination has nothing on the Grand Wagoneer. But here you go:

    GMC-Yukon_AT4-2021-1280-01.jpg Jeep-Grand_Wagoneer_Concept-2020-1600-09-2.jpg

    GMC-Yukon_AT4-2021-1280-12.jpg Jeep-Grand_Wagoneer_Concept-2020-1280-1a.jpg
     
    #57 Ryan, Sep 6, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  18. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    I hope it isn't harsh to suggest that FCA is attempting to cash in on what they perceive as a huge reserve of goodwill for the original Wagoneer......Which reminds me...

    To me, this represents an about-face to the strategy they employed with the Pacifica. In that case, they didn't bother to captialize on the existing goodwill in the name 'Town & Country'...to instead attempt to hark back to a far less remembered (and probably less revered vehicle in the original Pacifica.

    I just wish the company would figure out what direction they want to go in ......and #^&#^%* GO THERE.
    This is more than a little bit like the ancient Israelites wandering aimlessly around the desert for 40 years.:D
     
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  19. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    Well I don’t know what the Yukon AT4 can do capability-wise, but it sure LOOKS like it can actually do something off-road. The Wagoneer, not so much.
     
  20. Ryan

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Well, it is the off-road specific trim level. We haven't seen what the off-road Wagoneer will look like yet, assuming it does get an off-road variant.
     
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