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New to me 2002 Concorde Lxi (have some questions of course)

Discussion in 'LH: Large Cars, 1993-2004' started by patricklynch, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. patricklynch

    patricklynch Mopar starship captain

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    My much loved 1999 Concorde Lxi got T-boned about a month ago in the passenger side. Damaged both doors pretty bad. The other guy was clearly at fault and his insurance company agreed after seeing the collision report. To my astonishment, they gave me full NADA retail value for the car which was enough to buy a 2002 Concorde Lxi with the 3.5 and has 151,000 miles on it. I picked it up today and took it out on a long shakedown drive to get an idea of what the new ship in the fleet will need.

    Happily you can still do the key dance on these cars so I pulled codes and got two.

    P0132-- 1/1 oxygen sensor shorted to voltage
    P0152-- 2/1 oxygen sensor shorted to voltage

    What does the 1/1 and the 2/1 mean? Does this tell me which oxygen sensors are bad? If I remember correctly, there should be 4 of them.

    My airbag light is on all the time. Would I be correct in thinking the sensor needs replacement?

    I have to pull up on the brake pedal to get the brake lights to go off. Does anyone know if the switch under the steering column is adjustable or is it like the old cars and the switch is worn out and should be replaced?

    Speaking of lights, neither high beam light came on, nor did the fog lights at the bottom. I see that the passenger side headlight housing was replaced and poorly aimed. I wonder if something didn't get connected when it was all put back together. My Haynes manual is very weak on this topic.

    The front windows are wonky, I gather the clips that hold the door glass in place are broken. I found the Mopar part number for them, but I can't seem to find anyone on the usual auto part store list who has them. Any suggestions other than the dealer which I'll go to if there is no alternative.
     
  2. JA Cumbo

    JA Cumbo Enjoying the ride.
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    The airbag light might be the clockspring.
     
  3. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    [sup]There is a Chrysler TSB #18-031-02 that addresses false O2 sensor fault codes, among other things. It involves a PCM (flash) reprogramming.[/sup]
    [sup]I would try that first. The O2 sensors may be OK.[/sup]
    [sup]http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/ripster74/2010-06-15_154835_tsb_o2.pdf[/sup]
    [sup]For the other items, I would find a good factory service manual for diagnostic procedures. Haynes manuals can be wrong and misleading for your application.[/sup]
     
  4. patricklynch

    patricklynch Mopar starship captain

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    Thanks. I'll check that. When the car first starts up it can run a bit rough and then smooth out. After I wrote the original post, I finally did find the FSM and got it and an owner's manual from Amazon. I found the car has new front brake pads and while looking at that found the original struts still in place. My take on this car is that I'll probably find myself replacing everything that was skipped on the maintenance schedule and then end up with a really good car.

    Edit in: I assume the flash reprogramming is a dealer job?
     
  5. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    Yes, dealer-only.
    For the shop 'minimum fee', see if they will update the other modules in the car as well, if needed.
    They only have to plug the scan tool in once for all updates.
    It's also possible that the update has already been done (look for underhood stickers) and that the O2 sensors really are in trouble. We don't know the car's history.
     
  6. patricklynch

    patricklynch Mopar starship captain

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    I've since found that a fuse is missing from one of the airbag slots in the instrument panel fuse box. I wonder why it was pulled?
     
  7. patricklynch

    patricklynch Mopar starship captain

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    My lap top has a dead hard drive so my computer access is kind of limited for awhile.

    I printed off the TSB you linked for me. I need to find a dealer I can take this to as sadly my local dealer while they sell a lot of cars have a deservedly bad service reputation. I had the battery disconnected for about half an hour while I worked on some things related to the ATC control panel and a stereo install. The check engine light went off for about a day and then popped back on. I'll pull codes again and see if they're the same. The engine occasionally shudders a bit and then self corrects. I've found a cracked PCV hose which I need to replace. Are there any really common places for a vacuum leak on these cars if that's the problem?

    As far as the car's history, I think it was in the hands of at least one idiot after the original owner parted with the car. My right headlight housing was replaced but none of the retainers were used especially that long thin bolt that runs through the outboard side of the housing. I'm going to have to go to the junkyard and get all the hardware off another car. I pulled it up roughly in place with a long zip tie which I hate doing. The stereo was gone when I got the car, and the person who removed it stripped off the end of the antenna cable so it's just the cable and a metal ring on the end with some slightly exposed cable and no plug. At least I can listen to CDs.

    I pulled ATC codes from the panel and it mentioned the ambient temp sensor. If I remember correctly, that's the one down on the passenger side of the bumper. I'm wondering if the idiocy of my headlamp housing and the sensor are connected? I haven't had a chance yet, but I'm going to trace out the wiring for the fog lamps and the high beams and see if they are disconnected for some reason. I can get the high beam indicator to appear on the dash but have no lights. No fog lights either. Either all the lamps are needing replacement or its some other problem.

    I got the driver's side tie rods replaced with upgraded tie rod adjusters and bushings. The car drives quite well, but will be better yet when I replace the struts. Ordered window clips for my balky front windows and a used heater blower resistor as everything on my ATC panel works except the fan speed. Replaced the dead hood support lifts. Beats propping it up with a stick. Changed the oil, need to change the transmission fluid. Smells like varnish. The car's getting there, but there's still a lot to do.
     
  8. JA Cumbo

    JA Cumbo Enjoying the ride.
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    Possible they blew a fuse in another slot and they were too cheap to buy a box of fuses?

    I have a feeling your temp sensor, and light problems are all related to that cheapo headlight repair. Dunno why, if someone can't DIY it right, why they don't they just take it somewhere and have it fixed right. I know I am not very handy, so I never tackle anything complex on my car.
     
  9. patricklynch

    patricklynch Mopar starship captain

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    That they were too cheap to buy more fuses would not surprise me in the slightest. I'll be picking up a box or two because this car has what I'd term "mini" fuses in some spots and I have either the 60's glass fuses or the 80's type. I agree, I think a bunch of my problems are related to that stupid headlight repair. I also noticed on the way home yesterday that the headlight switch is mounted slightly askew. Makes me wonder why. Wish I'd bought this car last spring instead of a month ago. My window clips arrived yesterday. Now I just need a good block of time to get into the door panels and have access to everything. There's some good threads on that repair on dodgeintrepid.net.

    When I parked the car at work, I noticed that a sharp left turn of the wheel makes a distinct knock sound. I don't have to be moving for it to make the sound, just turn the wheel. It's probably the sway bar bushing shot, the very worn out strut, or replacing the lower ball joint/control arms just moved higher up my list. I'm not complaining though, I expected to have to replace all this stuff as a matter of course.
     
  10. patricklynch

    patricklynch Mopar starship captain

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    The airbag light is fixed. Apparently, someone was too cheap to put a new fuse in somewhere else and substituted the airbag fuse. The light went off a few seconds after engine start up. That makes me feel better.

    Oh, on that knock sound when the wheel is turned over hard left, I see now that it really only makes it in very very slow sharp turns. I probably should have bought these years ago, but I got a set of ramps to put the car up on. It will make my transmission fluid change go easier and any inspecting of lighting wiring harnesses I'm going to do this weekend.
     
  11. patricklynch

    patricklynch Mopar starship captain

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    Found the elusive super long headlight retaining screw at chryslerpartsdiscounters.com and ordered two. Nice to have a new part and not slog around in muddy junkyards to find it already gone. As soon as that's here, the passenger side headlight gets mounted properly. Will take that moment to track down all the wiring and make sure everything is as its supposed to be and install new high beam bulbs while I'm in there. This Sunday while the weather is nice, I'll also change the transmission fluid/filter, install the new ambient temperature sensor and hopefully my blower motor resistor. (Hasn't arrived yet.) Will also be installing the window clips. Having smooth tracking windows is going to be massively appreciated.

    If it's warm enough and if there's time, I'm going to mask off the Chrysler emblem and trim around the grille and repaint it black with that rattle can of bumper/trim/mirror housing paint I was going to use on the old Concorde grille. That will improve the looks of the car immensely, not that it isn't a good looking car already, but sometimes the small stuff reaps the biggest rewards.
     
  12. patricklynch

    patricklynch Mopar starship captain

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    While I continue to post into an empty room, found the reason for the knocking sound is a missing cradle bushing that I swore was there the first time I looked under the car. I see that these are very expensive pieces of rubber.

    Found one of the high beam headlights unplugged. Also figured out that the headlight housing does not have to be removed to install new high beam bulbs. Also discovered that I should have ordered four of the long headlight screws instead of two because the next time I do have to put low beam bulbs in or replace the driver's side housing outright, those screws are toast.

    In spite of the code thrown by the ATC panel, a new ambient temperature sensor did not fix the blower motor problem, and neither did the blower motor resistor. The old resistor looked a bit crusty and there was a screw missing from it which makes me think someone has pulled it before and swapped in a used part that also possibly failed. Now I have to wonder if the fan itself is overloading the resistor. Or the little fan on the ATC panel temp sensor is not working or the blower motor fuse which looks good isn't.

    I pulled the panel off the driver's door and the lift clips on the windows don't look broken and I pulled the glass to check but the regulator flexes something crazy when the window is raised up and down. I was astonished at how thin the regulator arms are. Looks like I need a new regulator. I see that Advance sells an improved regulator with motor already attached for about what the motor sells by itself.

    The weather was perfect for masking off the emblem and trim around the grille for a repaint. The front of the car looks much better now.

    I have to remind myself it's going to take time to straighten this car back out. Otherwise, I have to fight the urge to wish I had just put the money into the St. Regis and made that my daily driver again.
     
  13. carguygibby

    carguygibby New Member

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    The knock sound you hear may be worn inner tie rod bushings. A very common problem on these cars.
    Bit of a PITA to replace but can be done by the average DIY car mechanic.
    Colin
     
  14. patricklynch

    patricklynch Mopar starship captain

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    The inner tie rod bushings got replaced when I had the driver's side tie rods replaced. :) Those bushings were so far gone, the inner driver side tie rod was literally bouncing around where the bushing failed. You could grab the tie rod and make it move back and forth where there was no bushing doing its job. That knocking sound was actually pretty scary and it drove like it too. This knocking sound I was able to track down to the lower rear cradle bushing. That job at least while probably also a PITA, is at least easier to get to than the inner tie rods. Will do all of the bushings when I replace that one.

    The weather is nasty enough now the Concorde is sitting in the garage. All the attempts to get the fan to blow air failed and I don't want to make a 40 mile round trip commute in the cold rain and no fan for the defroster. A new fan with cage is about 120 bucks more or less and I'm going to have to tough it out until I get paid next. The St. Regis did the commute yet again this morning, and I really need to put new pads and shoes on it very soon. Also facing the prospect of having to dig up my front yard and replace the sewer pipe running to the house. Fun times. :cheers:
     
  15. patricklynch

    patricklynch Mopar starship captain

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    A junkyard fan got air flowing out the HVAC vents again, but it seems weak on heat. I ran a recalibration sequence suggested to me and that did not help. I need to check my coolant level when I get home where I can see what I'm looking at. If the coolant level turns out to be fine, could it be that there needs to be air bled out of the system?
     
  16. patricklynch

    patricklynch Mopar starship captain

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    Update on the Concorde: My dad used his scan tool to retrieve codes and also monitor the oxygen sensors while the engine was running. We decided to replace the upstream oxygen sensors and unlike other things on this car, that ended up being quite an easy job with the proper deep well socket. It is quite satisfying to see the check engine light stay off.

    One of the codes the car threw at me was the P0128 code for "thermostat rationality" which I assume meant the thermostat was no longer rational as it was stuck open. Getting that thing out and replaced was something of a nightmare. Ugh. At least if I have to do it again, I know what to expect. The coolant tank developed a nasty crack that mercifully did not completely rupture and I was able to get the car home and replace it. I've had a horrible time getting the air bled out of the system. As I've also noticed that bits of crud floating in my coolant tank, I've got an appointment to have it flushed and refilled. Maybe they'll have better luck getting the air out of than I have. The heat is better but still weaker than it should and I can hear gurgling sometimes behind the dash board which I gather means I haven't gotten all of the air out.

    Thanks to eBay, I scored a perfect used wheel to replace the bad right front unit that had the wallowed out lug holes. It was only five dollars more than a junkyard piece (if you can find one) and free shipping. I'll be doing a spark plug replacement in the next few days and after that, tackle my messed up front windows starting with the driver's window. This car has been more pain than joy but I've now gotten it to the point where it's starting to turn around and I see some light at the end of the tunnel and pretty hopeful that it's not an oncoming train. :working:
     
  17. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    I can't help you with your issues but it sounds like you ended up in the same place I did. Last February, someone pulled in front of my 1999 Dakota R/T and I hit them about 40-45 MPH.
    So the replacement truck needed a lot of TLC just like you're going through with the Concorde. I think I've got the replacement truck in good shape finally and I hope you're there with the Concorde as well.
     
  18. 78LilRed

    78LilRed New Member

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    You can fix the brake pedal switch by pressing the brake pedal down and reaching up to the switch and pulling the plunger out a few clicks.....pull hard....then let the pedal return to it's resting position....it will self adjust.

    The window clips can be purchased from NAPA

    Also your new car is do for a 100K/7 year Timing Belt/Water Pump service immediately if not already done. You risk major engine damage since these are interference engines
     
  19. patricklynch

    patricklynch Mopar starship captain

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    Hey, good to hear from you! It's been a long time. My laptop is now fixed and it really hit me just how long it's been since I was on Allpar last. Sorry to hear you had a similar experience. Hope you were not hurt. I'm much closer to having the new Concorde back up to the level of the old Concorde. The two major things I have left to do are the struts and the engine cradle bushings.

    The great irony of my new Concorde is that the lot that sold me mine got in an even better one that had been obviously babied. Same colour and year even. I've put too much into mine to want to try get this other one. My learning curve has been pretty helpful to these guys as they've had some other LH cars on their lot and I've helped them figure out some stuff.

    Thanks. I did try the self adjusting reset on the brake pedal switch. It didn't last long. A new switch fixed it. I had already bought the window clips from NAPA only to discover they were actually fine once I got the windows out of the door and inspected them. It turned out that piece of white rectangular plastic that slides along the regulator tracks was the real culprit so I got the Dorman "redesigned" regulators with the motors already attached and my windows work better than new.

    I know about these being interference engines, and I've been able to figure out that this car mercifully did get it's timing belt replaced. At first I thought the car had nothing else done to it but I've since found that some work had been done to it after all. Below is what I've done so far since getting the car:

    Replaced crapped out Autolites with the factory part number NGKs
    Replaced the Bosch oxygen sensors with the factory NTKs
    Replaced the thermostat twice, the second time with the factory Gates thermostat. The Auto Zone thermostat stuck closed.
    Replaced both the fan blower motor and the blower motor resistor. Now I can get air out of the vents.
    Replaced accessory belts.
    Replaced the ambient temperature sensor.
    Replaced all of the head and fog light bulbs. (They all work now)
    Replaced both the hood and trunk lift supports.
    Replaced one bad aluminum wheel.
    Replaced the high speed fan relay.
    Replaced the brake light switch.
    Replaced the cracked coolant tank.
    Replaced the rear brake pads. The front already had new ones.
    Replaced all four tires with Michelin Defenders which have to be the best tires I've put on any car so far.
    Had the cooling system flushed.
    Changed the transmission fluid and filter.

    Fixed the mounting problems of the replacement headlight though I'm not super happy with the aim yet.

    Things that still need attention:

    Bought but have not yet installed a set of Monroe Quick Struts ( I see online posts up to about 2 years ago that these were considered problematic. Read no current complaints and decided to risk them--they can't be worse than my 156,000 mile original struts.) Been soaking the rear clamp bolts with lots of PB Blaster based on what happened with my old Concorde.
    Still need to replace the engine cradle bushings.
    Still having trouble getting all of the air bled out of the system. My heat is better than when I got it, but is a long way from spec.
    Still need to replace the driver's side headlight housing. Some previous idiot broke the mounting tab and it's clouded past the point of reviving.
    Need to replace one exhaust gasket at the manifold, it's noisy.
    My transmission is grumpy in cold weather, I'm wondering if its one of the input/output sensors based on the codes we pulled.

    On the whole, this car is coming along pretty well. I've learned the hard way on both the oxygen sensors and the thermostat to buy ONLY the OEM part. This car doesn't like the Bosch sensors and really hated the Auto Zone thermostat. The Concorde really seemed to respond positively to the OEM parts. This car has both been a huge pain and easier to work on than I expected. I'm much happier with it.
     
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