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Nitro Nightmare 4.0L Engine With W5A580 Trans

Discussion in 'Cherokee, Liberty, Nitro' started by superduckie5000, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. superduckie5000

    superduckie5000 THE MAD DUCK
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    Hi: Right Now I Don't Know this Adventure on Elm St. is Going to End Up.
    At 90,710 Miles (And 7 and 1/2 Years) I felt it Was Time to Change the Trans Filter and Fluid.
    I Knew the Trans Pan Had Rust Problems. But I Didn't Really Know How Bad.
    And I Actually Bought an B&M Deep Aluminum Pan for It a Month Ago.
    I was Waiting for Warm Weather to Do It.
    First, I Would Like to Personally Thank M-B (AKA:D-Bag) for the Excellent
    (The Cheapest) Steel they Bought for the OME Pans.
    However the did Coat the inside of the Pan to Prevent Rust on the Inside.
    Too Bad It Rusted Thru from the Out Side In.
    And Some Engineer Ran the Exhaust Pipe Cross Over Under the Back of the the Trans Pan.
    And Did I Mention that is With in a Quarter inch of the Pan too.
    That Helped Speed the Rust Process Up A Bunch!
    A Week Ago I Started Smelling what I Thought was Burning Brake Pads.
    Wrong !
    I Was the Burning of Trans Fluid on the Exhaust Pipe.
    I was out shopping and Saw White Smoke Coming from Underneath It.
    The Little Tiny Leak Had Finally gotten Big.
    It has been Ever So Slowly Leaking and the Fluid was Going Away by Burning off the Exhaust Pipe.
    If I am Really Luckily I Found It Early Enough to Save the Trans.
    Anyway I Drained the Fluid (What was Left of It), Changed the Filter and Put on the New Pan.
    The Stock Pan Takes 5.0 L's (10.6 Pints) when you Drop It, Change the Filter and Refill It.
    The Scary Part I Only got Out 2.5 Quarts of the Trans. So About 2.8 Quarts has "Disappeared"
    Over an Unknown Length of Time.
    Also Remember this is One of the Trannies with NO DIPSTICK!
    It Now Has 8 Quarts of Fluid in the B&M Pan.
    I Plant to Put a Few Miles on the Fluid, Drain It and Refill it With Nice, New Clean Fluid.
    And Do it Again a Week Later to Really Flush It Out.
    B&M Pan has a Drain Plug !
    I Had ABSOLUTELY NO Indication From the Computer Nannies the there was a Problem !
    And there was NEVER a Drop of Fluid Under the Nitro.

    So if You Have a Nitro with a 4.0L and the W5A580 Trans You May Want to Invest in a
    Trans Fluid Dipstick for Your Nitro and Check It.

    Fun Note:
    You Have to Drop the Exhaust Y-Pipe Off the Exhaust Manifolds to Get Off the
    Trans Pan. There is Not Enough Clearance Between the Pan and the Valve Body.
    And the Factory Manual Don't Tell You About That !
     
    saltydog likes this.
  2. superduckie5000

    superduckie5000 THE MAD DUCK
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    6/20/19 Update:
    I was at My Local JCDR Dealer in Woodhaven, MI (Feldman's on Allen Road) Visiting an Old Friend who Works at the Parts Counter.
    You Know Your Driving Aging Vehicles when a Parts Guy a the Dealer Know's You by your First Name When You Walk In.
    And So far this Year I Used Up 5 of the 6 Employee Discounts I Can Get on Parts.
    Our Nitro is 7 1/2 Years Old & has 91K Miles on it.
    Our 2010 Dodge Journey is Up to 119K Miles on it But Has One of the "Forever" Warranties on It.
    I Was Ordering a Few Parts for the 2011 Nitro Air Conditioning System (Some Items from the Local Corner Parts Store I Really Don't Trust).
    Anyway I Asked Him About the Trans Pans in the Nirto's with the W5A580 M/B Transmission.
    Did they Have a Rusting Problem ?
    The Question Kind'a Stopped him in his Tracks.
    He Looked Over Top of His Eye-Glasses and Said he has Sold a Number of them Because of the Rust Thru Problem.
    Wow! Now I Don't Fell So Bad. My Nitro is Not the Only One with that Problem.
     
    #2 superduckie5000, Jun 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
    valiant67 likes this.
  3. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Misery loves company!
     
  4. Junkman George

    Junkman George Active Member

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    It could be worse, 2010 2500 Dodge in the yard with 60.000 miles. Oil pan, transmission pan, AC compressor, transmission, ign switch, window regulator, brakes (complete, front and rear), 2 sets of tires so far.......... it is so bad I cringe whenever I think I might want to drive it.
     
  5. superduckie5000

    superduckie5000 THE MAD DUCK
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    Well I've Gotten to the End of the Story for my 2011 Nitro.
    The Trans went into Limp in Mode and threw some Codes (Check Engine Light Came on)
    Did I tell you in the Mean Time the A/C Died.
    So I Decided to "Fire" the Nitro and I Got a New Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk.
    Yes: "Sticker Shock" was Involved. It had a List Price of $9k More the the 2011 Dodge Nitro.
    However My Employee Price got about $2k Off. And there was $6.5k in Incentives.
    And I got a Few More Dollars Off the Price from My Duck Hunting Buddy Salesman at the Jeep Dealer.
    The Dealership Still have Some Room to Drop the Price.
    So It Wasn't so Bad of a Price.

    The Price Sticker:

    Anyone One Want to Buy a Well Maintained One Speed Nitro ? ? ?
    91,000 Miles !
     

    Attached Files:

    #5 superduckie5000, Aug 14, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  6. superduckie5000

    superduckie5000 THE MAD DUCK
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    Update: Got the W5A-580 Transmission Rebuilt by a Local Reputable Shop, In Mid-September.
    They got It Right. 3K Miles on it and it's Running Fine.
    I've talked an In-law into Buying It.
    But I Know Who get's to Fix it When Something Goes Wrong.... Me.
     
    #6 superduckie5000, Dec 23, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  7. ka9yhd

    ka9yhd Well-Known Member

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    Lucky you... And the moral of the story, never sell to family. :D
     
    saltydog and superduckie5000 like this.
  8. Matthew

    Matthew Is pushing for progress!

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    I hope you are loving your Cherokee Trailhawk, I absolutely love mine. Did you get the 3.2 or the 2.0? The fact I could get a V6 was a big selling point to me!
     
  9. superduckie5000

    superduckie5000 THE MAD DUCK
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    I Really like it so far.
    It blows me away the at 70 MPH it’s pulling about 1250 RPM.
    It’s up to 3K Miles. I got the tires to spin and slip once.
    Its done 2 Weird Trans shifts so far.
    The Start-Stop System is just Fine, Starts up in about .5 of a second after letting off the Brake.
    It’s got the big 8.4 screen with the Nav system.
    Mileage has been as high as 23 MPG over the road.
    The one thing it does not have is an oil PSI reading on the dash read out.
    The Body is a Heck of a lot Stiffer the my Good Old Nitro.
    Feels Much, Much Lighter in its Feet than the Nitro.
    Get the 3.2 Engine ! ! !
    It’s Made at my Old Plant - Trenton Engine
    The Electric Steering has almost too light of a Feel.
    Be Ready if you Buy one the Owners Manual is 638 Pages Long !
    Rear Storage is a Tiny Bit Smaller than the Nitro even though it looks a Lot Smaller from the outside.
    Full sized Spare is an Idea I Really Like
    I Also get an Monthly E-Mail from my Jeep to tell me everything it’s doing and about anything it Needs.
    I told Dave Z. about the e-mails and he said “ Wow it reports back to the Mothership”.
    It’s kind’a like the Refrigerator the E-Mail You when your Low on Milk ! .
     
    #9 superduckie5000, Jan 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
    Zagnut27 likes this.
  10. superduckie5000

    superduckie5000 THE MAD DUCK
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    I Know! I Know! I Know!
    But at a Sweetheart Price I hope It Won’t Come Back Haunt Me !
    I’ve already Paid the Price for helping a relative with Cars.
    I fixed and tuned up a Car for My Ex-Wife exactly once.
    I got a call 2 Years later and was asked why I Screwed up his Car.
    Now Would You want to Know what Exactly I Told Him ?
     
    #10 superduckie5000, Jan 3, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
    ka9yhd likes this.
  11. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    No good deed goes unpunished. :D
     
    ka9yhd likes this.
  12. Matthew

    Matthew Is pushing for progress!

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    Oh yeah I know all about the owners manual, when I bought mine it came with just the "users guide" which is an abbreviated one, so I printed it up on heavy weight paper along with the Uconnect manual and put it in like a 5 or 6 inch binder lol. and made my own custom cover with a pick of my trailhawk on it.

    I have the 3.2 and I love it, it also amazes me what it is at RMP wise at like 75 it is a good chunk lower then even the CVT in my old 08 Caliber. I have observed 26 MPG hone many occasions on longer highway trips, even on my trips over the passes to eastern washington and that includes Washington Pass SR20 which I did like 3 times this summer and that one tops out at 5,476 feet, has a speed limit of 60 but lost of slow corners as it is very twisty and pretty much always a two lain pass. I also get that on US2 Stevens Pass and that one tops out at 4,062 feet and I did that one like 2 or 4 times this year too. I got almost 27 when I did I90 Snoqualmie Pass. I even got 28 mpg highway once on a run I did down and back to almost Olympia, to go the the Cabbleas down there (it is the bigger one at my boyfriend at the time and I wanted to go to that one as it had the most taxidermy at it)

    I personally like the electric power steering, I like the weight and ease for something it size. Especially when I am off road, it makes it nice easy and it dose not get tiring. I don't know where you are but where I am in WA a lot of the offroading you do it up in the mountains, so there are a lot to twist and turns to begin with, and sharp ones that that they often require lock to lock turning. And with all the adjustment to get the right line around other obstacles, rocks that have fallen in the the path andi wash outs, I think that if it was heavier (like that of say my Mini) that would get tiering fast.

    I totally agree it feels light on its feet for it size and weight (it weights it weighs over 4,200 lbs) it say it feels lighter on its feet almost then my 08 caliber, It might also be because the power steering was more on the heavy side with that compared to the Cherokee. Yet if also manages to feel solid and secure on the road at the same time.

    I love the full size spare, especially since I take mine off roading. (I know that the FWD and ADI equipped ones come standard with a compact spare, but those ones are also pretty much the ones that are always going to stay on road so there is not much reason that a compact spare will not do the trick to get you from where the tier encountered its problem and to a tire shop to get a new one.
    I bought mine in august 2018 and I have and I have almost 19,800 miles on it now. And this coming summer I plan on taking it on a cross country road trip with mom to visit my grandmother and relatives in upstate NY out side Albany.

    To me I love how it feels like a "baby" grand cherokee. Mom has a limited Grand Cherokee and it feels just as nice if not even nicer. They paid attention to all the details and the tuches like the contrast stitching and the stitching on the dash that even though it is not leather makes it look like you have a leather wrapped dash are so nice. Especially coming from an 08 Caliber which suffered from the penny pinching of Dimler on the Chrysler side of the business. And with the lumbar adjustment and in addition to the 8 way seat adjustment (to me it seems most other manufacturers count the lumbar adjustment into the other seat adjustments) It is the best road trip car I have ever had. The seats are just right firm enough that you don't get fiteged from them being to soft but soft enough it dose not feel like you are sitting on a park bench. (which the latter seems to be how most other manufacturers have gone) I know with my offroading trips I take I have done days where I spend 12+ hours in the car when you factor in the time that it takes to get there, and I have not feel worn out at all!

    Sorry if the post is too long, there just seem to be so many people that do not own Cherokees that hate on it simply because it is a FCA product or it technically shares a platform with the Dart, or if you look at it another way it also share a platform with and Alfa. But the Jeep engineers had their way with it and made the most capable vehicle in its class, yet also managed to make it something that is very easy to live with and that is a great daily driver and road trip vehicle as well. And I know it might sound silly but it is amazing to me that they where able to do all those things in once vehicle as in the past you would have had to sacrifice the latter in order to get the former. as well as sacrifice the MPG to have the V6 and its power as well as off road capability. (as the Liberty got about the same millage as your old Nitro)
     
    superduckie5000 likes this.
  13. superduckie5000

    superduckie5000 THE MAD DUCK
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    [QU2OTE="superduckie5000, post: 1085157125, member: 1759"]I Really like it so far.
    It blows me away the at 70 MPH it’s pulling about 1250 RPM.
    It’s up to 3K Miles. I got the tires to spin and slip once.
    Its done 2 Weird Trans shifts so far.
    The Start-Stop System is just Fine, Starts up in about .5 of a second after letting off the Brake.
    It’s got the big 8.4 screen with the Nav system.
    Mileage has been as high as 23 MPG over the road.
    The one thing it does not have is an oil PSI reading on the dash read out.
    The Body is a Heck of a lot Stiffer the my Good Old Nitro.
    Feels Much, Much Lighter in its Feet than the Nitro.
    Get the 3.2 Engine ! ! !
    It’s Made at my Old Plant - Trenton Engine
    The Electric Steering has almost too light of a Feel.
    Be Ready if you Buy one the Owners Manual is 638 Pages Long !
    Rear Storage is a Tiny Bit Smaller than the Nitro even though it looks a Lot Smaller from the outside.
    Full sized Spare is an Idea I Really Like
    I Also get an Monthly E-Mail from my Jeep to tell me everything it’s doing and about anything it Needs.
    I told Dave Z. about the e-mails and he said “ Wow it reports back to the Mothership”.
    It’s kind’a like the Refrigerator the E-Mail You when your Low on Milk ! .[/QUOTE]

    Fat Finger Correction:
    It's Pulling 1750 RPM at 70 MPH,
    Not 1250 .
     
  14. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    The newer vehicles show engine and transmission oil temperature rather than engine oil pressure, but you still have a low engine oil pressure light and a transmission overtemp light.
    Maybe too many customers were micro-managing their engine oil pressure reading as an 'engine problem'. I know that the gauge was a source of anxiety for some owners.
     
    superduckie5000 likes this.
  15. superduckie5000

    superduckie5000 THE MAD DUCK
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    I Don't Like the No Oil Pressure Reading Idea At All.
    It Just Shows the Oil Temp. That Info is Nice But Basically Useless.
    If the Oil Temp Gets Real High You have Toasted Something Real Bad !
    We got Back from Buffalo NY Visiting our Daughter, Son in-law and Grand Sons.
    It's been the first Trip Where I got to Watch how the 9-Speed Trans Really Operates.
    I went in to 9 gear on Down Hill Runs.
    It Pulled as High as 26.85 MPG at 60 to 70 MPH for Many Miles !
     
    Dave Z likes this.
  16. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Eight speed has great range, too. 300C just loafs along at 70 mph, getting about 34 mpg. (I took the car on a long trip and held it to 72 mph and that was my reading, including the city driving to get to my destination.) It gets around 33 at a limit of 75 mph.

    The Dart's little 1.4 liter engine and lighter weight is only good for around 40 mpg in my experience — held to 66! (With occasional bouts of 70.) If I drive it the same way as the 300, highway mileage drops down to 36 or so. But city's more important in my driving.
     

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