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No start '01 XJ 4.0

Discussion in 'Cherokee, Liberty, Nitro' started by 98gcawd, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. 98gcawd

    98gcawd Member

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    About an hour and a half from home after looking at a Scout to purchase I pulled off the freeway to top off the fuel. Get in to move it to go use the little boys room, turn the key and nothing happens. the dash lights all do their thing but no start not even a click. Now the key is stuck in the column, won't turn to accessory and with key on, foot on the brake can't move the auto gearshift. Get out and check the headlights, they look like their normal pathetic selves. Try the key several more times and now I can pull it out and move the gearshift but no start. I put it in neutral, set the parking brake and use a screw driver on the starter and it cranks. Hit it again and the engine is running. Drove it the hour and a half home without problems, parked, shut it off, turned the key and nothing but dash lights. I'm thinking ignition switch. What do you think? It will start in park with the screw driver. Thanks
     
  2. ImperialCrown

    Level III Supporter

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    Maybe the ignition key cylinder isn't turning the switch far enough? The 'C' shaped actuator is pot-metal and can break.
    I would begin at the steering column.
    8002ab9c.gif
     
  3. 98gcawd

    98gcawd Member

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    Well it's not the switch or the relay in the PDC. The key cylinder assembly looks good and the key turns in both directions all the way to the stop pins. With the cylinder out I wanted to use a tool to try to start it but didn't come up with anything that seemed safe to not damage parts. there's red plastic in there along with pot metal parts. When I turn the key to the start position I'm hearing possibly a relay up in the dash towards the passenger side.
     
  4. 98gcawd

    98gcawd Member

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    I found that I can use a half-round file in the actuator assembly that pushes in the red pin and allows me to turn the switch. Still nothing. The actuator assembly is not broken which is sometimes the problem. I can unscrew the ignition switch, use a matchstick for the actuator pin turn the switch with a screw driver while holding the ground contact against metal in the column and no starter. I get all other functions of the ignition switch just no starter. When I turn the switch to start the blower relay and other functions cut out like they should. I tried jumping the two bottom pins in the NSS connector but it didn't start.
    I don't know what the initial key problems were about but that's not the issue now, might be a problem down the road if I could get it running!
     
  5. 98gcawd

    98gcawd Member

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    Holy @#%p. I had checked fuses in the PDC under the hood but forgot about that panel in the left side kick panel under the dash. It was mentioned in a thread I found elsewhere - check fuse #19. It runs now. It was the key acting strange that sent me down that rabbit trail. DOH, Beat-head-against-wall
     
  6. 98gcawd

    98gcawd Member

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    It's baaack! I have been starting the Bleep by opening the hood and using a screw driver across the starter terminals. The problem started a few days ago with the starter sounding bad and weak. Fuse #19 hasn't blown. I pulled the starter, hooked up jumper cables to it and used a screw driver on the solenoid terminals and it worked good. I printed pages from the FSM to test the components of the starting system and was heading in the direction of possibly the Neutral/Park Safety Switch being the culprit. Since the starter checked out I decided to reinstall it and just for grins turned the key - it started! It worked a couple days then quit. 90+% of the time the starter does nothing when turning key, sometimes it briefly will sound off but quits before the engine will start. Pop the hood, use the screwdriver and she's running. Is that $$$$ N/P Switch the problem? I might install starter button on the consul!
     
  7. ImperialCrown

    Level III Supporter

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    I would continue diagnosis. I think that I have heard of only one of these TRS switches (Mopar 4882173) failing in all the time I was at Chrysler shops.
    Is the shift cable adjustment correct? It also looks like a slotted bolt hole on the TRS, so it can rotate slightly more towards Park. After 15 years, there may be some linkage/switch pole wear. There is a line on the switch that should line up with the manual valve shaft (see fig. 5).
    A starter solenoid usually either works or it doesn't, if the starter sounds 'bad' or 'weak', I would look elsewhere first.
    Having a DRB III (or equivalent) scan tool plugged in while this no-start happens might render an easy answer to the location of the problem under the Powertrain inputs/outputs menu.
    It looks like pins 'B' and 'C' on the TRS should have continuity in Park and Neutral. With a couple of T-pins to push into the connector next to the terminals and a length of speaker wire connected to them, you could run these wires up to the windshield for a bulb continuity check (like a test light with long leads). Then watch for failure. This is useful for intermittent problems.
    The switch pinouts and test procedures are shown on p. 21-52; fig.3 in the service manual here:
    http://oskin.ru/pub/chrysler-dodge/manuals/Service Manuals/1993_ZJ_Jeep_Grand_Cherokee/93ZJ_21.PDF
     
  8. 98gcawd

    98gcawd Member

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    Thanks. One other symptom, when it first quit about a week ago, was the gearshift was locked for a few attempts. Key on, foot on the brake pedal and the gearshifter wouldn't move. I was trying to put it in neutral to try starting in that position - it doesn't work. Also, the reverse lights are working.
     
  9. ImperialCrown

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    I don't have a service manual or wiring diagram for the BTSI (brake/transmission shift interlock) on the '01 XJ, but it may not release from Park if it doesn't know that it is in Park. This may be an important clue.
    The BTSI wiring layout may be the same as used on other models and years? It looks like the general practice is to ground the BTSI shift cable Park release solenoid through the brake pedal switch.
    The brake switch is actually 3 switches in one. One switch to cancel cruise control (N/C), one for the rear brake lamps (N/O) and one for the PCM and BTSI 'brakes on' sense (N/O).
    I'm not saying that this is it, but it is possible for any one switch to fail and still have brake lights working.
     
  10. 98gcawd

    98gcawd Member

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    Well, after a long time of stabbing the starter to get it running, I finally got it to start with the key. My son was over and he has acquired some electrical experience, so we diagnosed the problem following the FSM. The FSM, in the trouble shooting the relay section, has socket 85 and 86 reversed in steps 4 and 5 - if I remember correctly. Everything checked out at the relay socket in the PDC. The problem turned out to be the brown wire at the starter solenoid. The female connector in the weatherproof plug was too loose on the blade/pin. We eliminated the connector replacing it with a ring terminal end and used 2 layers of heat shrink tubing over the wire onto the ring terminal. So it works - for now! I don't know what all the other symptoms were about. Ill keep you posted of any changes.
     
    ImperialCrown likes this.

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