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Off topic Fiat 124

5K views 25 replies 8 participants last post by  aldo90731 
#1 · (Edited)
I looked at a local 2017 Fiat 124 Abarth with 12,000 miles and a 2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack with 7,500 miles. Both have 2 doors, a 6-speed manual, navigation, white exterior and black leather. That’s where the similarities end.

For an additional $8,000, the Dodge gets me 485 HP, 6.4 liters of HEMI glory, much faster 0-60 times, a much more comfortable interior, seating for up to five people, a huge trunk, an amazing exhaust sound, power sunroof, 18 speakers, those fun SRT performance pages, stunning 20” wheels, heated AND ventilated seats, telescopic steering wheel, blind spot monitor, world-class braking, confident handling and a comfortable ride, and infinitely more road presence. The Dodge gives up open-air motoring, nimbler handling and fuel efficiently.

Yes, I know, comparing the Spider and the Challenger is like apples and oranges. But the Challenger Scat Pack represents one of the biggest bangs-for-the-buck in the market; the Spider Abarth not so much. There’s no way I can justify getting the Spider, even at a lower price.

It’s more like comparing an apple...and a double cheeseburger with fries.
 
#2 ·
And what is the point? So there are even lower cost products that allow You to go from point A to point B with better fuel economy, same space inside but easier to park since smaller, ... ... ....
485 HP go go where? when the speed limits doesn't allow to use them.
Get an used electric car than, no trafic limitations, few noise to listen better the music, ... and all the torque at 0 rpm ...

And for the 124 take a twisty road and try to follow with a Challenger. And with the USD 8,000 have fun for long time ... free gasoline.
 
#9 ·
Thank you for pointing out the obvious.

For historical, economic, geographical, and cultural reasons, what Spider can do has more value in Europe than in North America; what Challenger can do has more value in North America than in Europe. Neither is right or wrong. It’s just different.

However, FCA needs to be well aware of these differences. Shortly after Fiat took over Chrysler, it wanted to turn Challenger into an Alfa Romeo wannabe. Thankfully, cooler heads prevailed, as the success of Challenger proves.

But to me this is representative of the self importance Fiat executives brought over, at least initially.

I think all-new Wrangler and Ram show this is mostly all behind.
 
#5 · (Edited)
For those that don’t get Aldo’s point:
This illustrates one of the major differences of the US auto market and Europe.

What is wanted in the US can and will be different from what is wanted in Europe.
Amen.

For some reason this appears to be rocket science for those sitting inside a “global” market.

The N.A. market is no less a significant element in a “global strategy” simply because it is predominantly carried in one language and a relatively homogeneous cultural group.
 
#4 ·
And your point is?...
That FCA shouldn't have products for two distinct market segments?
That it should have broken the agreement it had with Mazda to make a RWD coupe that also sells worldwide (including in Europe)? I can see a lot wrong with that...

They're different cars. Take that Dodge to a twisty mountain road and see with which car you would have more fun. The point of the Miata and the 124 Spider isn't POWER. It's having fun in a twisty road with the wind going through your hair and bathing in the sun...
YES, these are very different cars in different segments; I acknowledged as much. But the vast majority of consumers only get to choose ONE.

I am tired of this “global” argument. There’s no such thing as a “global” buyer. Each purchase is uniquely individual. Talking about “global” lineups make sense when you are sitting in your armchair, but it means squat when you are out shopping for a vehicle.

Yes, I agree, FCA needs to have a broad global presence —which should include sedans, BTW. But Challenger alone outsells the entire Fiat franchise more than 2-to-1 in North America. My example illustrates there’s something fundamentally off with Fiat’s value proposition in N.A. Especially when comparing a Fiat against other FCA products.
 
#11 ·
I totally understand Aldo’s argument. Yes, those are very different cars. However, I will be in the market for a new car next year, and so far there are a lot of choices we are considering: Charger 5.7, Chally 5.7, 124 Abarth, Wrangler, Ram1500 5.7 (unless a rumored Muclse Ram is made), Renegade, Cherokee, and a few Kias and Nissans.
 
#15 ·
That’s just it! The shopping process is neither linear, nor predictable not confined to one segment.

Anyone who has sold cars can tell stories of shoppers looking at minivans, SUVs and 2-door coupes in one afternoon. While that’s extreme, shoppers do like to go into it casting a wide net.

In my experience, some automakers are under the impression that the shopping process ought to be one clean, tidy business. If it is not, well then there must be something wrong...
 
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#19 ·
And your point is?...
That FCA shouldn't have products for two distinct market segments?
That it should have broken the agreement it had with Mazda to make a RWD coupe that also sells worldwide (including in Europe)? I can see a lot wrong with that...

They're different cars. Take that Dodge to a twisty mountain road and see with which car you would have more fun. The point of the Miata and the 124 Spider isn't POWER. It's having fun in a twisty road with the wind going through your hair and bathing in the sun...
Honestly, if you set a Challenger SRT8 in Sport Mode -- where the stability control is calibrated to assist the car with drifting. A twisty mountain road (with no traffic obviously) -- would be a ton more fun with a Challenger....... The aftermarket does offer Challenger convertibles, too -- but they are really expensive.

 
#23 ·
Indeed. You can have fun in pretty much anything if you know how to drive it. I even enjoyed taking my manual transmission Rubicon 2-door on twisty roads for similar reason: it was a hoot to feel the weight of the vehicle shifting on the curves and correcting it without touching the brakes, simply by shifting and pressing and releasing the gas. Was I going to win an race? No. But sure was a lot of fun.
 
#21 ·
My brother is the opposite of you @aldo90731. He has a 124 on order and never looked at a Challenger. He wanted a small, fun car. The Challenger is much bigger than he would want.

I am simply glad that both exist as an option.
 
#26 · (Edited)
My brother is the opposite of you @aldo90731. He has a 124 on order and never looked at a Challenger. He wanted a small, fun car. The Challenger is much bigger than he would want.

I am simply glad that both exist as an option.
For sure.

I started looking at Fiat 124, Mazda Miata, Ford Mustang and Dodge Challenger. The only thing I purposely excluded was Camaro: I just can’t deal with that cramped interior and the Elton John dashboard. And I didn’t bother with Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ, nor anything from Germany.

At some point I was down to the Fiat, the Ford and the Dodge. But I knew if I got the 124, after six months I’d be regretting not getting a V8.

When it became between a Mustang and a Challenger, to me, the Challenger offered the best overall value, even with its $10,000 premium over a Mustang GT due to its greater road presence, interior comfort, cargo room, ride quality, those 485 ponies, that glorious HEMI sound, etc.

But I still haven’t closed the deal; I don’t want to jinx it.
 
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