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On FCA US’ carline gaps

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by Dave Z, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Recently, long-time Allpar source “RedRiderBob” posted the following opinion, which crystallizes some thought on why the US does not have a Chrysler 100, Dodge Dart or Neon, or Chrysler 200, and why they are not bringing over Tipos or Giuliettas to fill in the gap. The new Mexican Neon (Fiat Tipo) was brought to the […]
    Read the whole post here.
     
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  2. aldo90731

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    Thank you for posting this, Dave.

    From my perspective, the reason GM and Ford have an entry in every segment is not only because they already have the product, but also as a portfolio diversification strategy in case fuel prices jump, the economy tanks, or sedans become hip again.

    Toyota seems determined to revive the sedan segment, and they are well positioned to do it. We will have to see if they truly execute it. But if they do and the sedan segment stops its decline and sees a revival, FCA will be well behind the curve and scrambling to fill the holes.
     
  3. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    FCA's big gamble is that conditions stay as they are. They've doubled down on less fuel efficient vehicles. Hybrid helps to offset that, but means a higher cost point. Dodge is gambling on "toys" that are purchases that won't be made without excess income of the "good times". There is no current path if gas prices rise, the economy falters, or (as in 2008) both happen.
     
  4. JeepandRams

    JeepandRams Active Member

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    I would love to see a Lancia version of the 500X in a mild hybrid version with the new Alfa 4 cylinder and mini Stelvio styling. Sell it abroad as a Lancia Delta and in North America as a Chrysler Lancia.
     
  5. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    FCA does have several fuel efficient engines. A few of which that are on the horizon. Where the Dodge and Jeep brands get into the HELLCAT powered model offering, those numbers are offset by them buying credits from Tesla. However, vehicles like the 500 lineup (especially the 500e in California) aren't much of a money maker but do good for the CAFE numbers.

    Engines like the GME engines will do some good to those numbers. But FCA's biggest issue isn't MPG numbers, its emissions numbers. That alone is crazy. A car from 1997 produces 90% lower emissions than its 1967 counterpart did. Since 1997, the current vehicles sold in the US are another 90% lower in emissions than those vehicles. I was reading an article saying by 2025, you will be able to breathe your exhaust almost completely from a gas engine with little effect to you.

    Progress Cleaning the Air and Improving People's Health | US EPA (at https://www.epa.gov/clean-air-act-overview/progress-cleaning-air-and-improving-peoples-health )

    EPA to Reexamine Emission Standards for Cars and Light Duty Trucks -- Model Years 2022-2025 | US EPA (at https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-reexamine-emission-standards-cars-and-light-duty-trucks-model-years-2022-2025 )
     
  6. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    I am starting to think you are a bot, since this is exactly the same thing you posted yesterday lol.
     
  7. JeepandRams

    JeepandRams Active Member

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    I really like this idea and it's pertinent to this discussion. Much rather have this as a Chrysler than a Typo or a Mazda.

    A FWD Stelvio lookalike shouldn't be an Alfa but would make great Chrysler.
     
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  8. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    Well Lancia is stuck in Italy... the brand has slowly died over the years... even when Chrysler sent over the 200 (Flavia), 300 (Thelma) and Town and Country (Grand Voyager) it couldn't save the brand. Sergio kicked it to a one car brand for Italy. It was killed off mostly because of its history... but there are no current Lancia cars in the pipeline.
     
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  9. Hemidakota

    Hemidakota Active Member

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    The only positive beside what is in the pipeline, is FCA paying off its debts.
     
  10. Hemidakota

    Hemidakota Active Member

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    For me, it would be asset if FCA considering looking at Lucid as a all electric brand line. ;)
     
  11. TripleT

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    Follow Ford, and sell the already approved Dart assembled in China.
     
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  12. mentalicca

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    As far as gaps go, small and midsize cars are going to be an issue. I would rather they do one perfect, or not at all. I thought the 200 was a fine vehicle for the class. But that was the problem, it didn't really excel or lead the pack in anything.

    The current mindset seems to be that it needs to be the "best" at something or they won't make it. And before we devolve into it, I want to leave quality out of this part of the discussion. That is a different point than I am trying to make.

    Let's look at the new rollouts from Dodge

    Challenger - Quickest American Sports Car in the Quarter Mile. Hellcats with top of the line HP. Etc.
    Charger - Fastest Sedan. Hellcats. V6 Fuel economy matches the best in class (far as I can tell).
    Durango - SRT is now orderable. Fastest 3 row SUV. Best towing in class, bunch more stuff that I can't remember.

    Jeep

    Grand Cherokee - Lest we forget the Trackhawk?
    Wrangler - Dominates the Trails as Usual
    The Rest - Trail Rated model that can tackle, in some way, Rubicon trails that other similar vehicles would fall on their faces attempting.

    Alfa Romeo

    Giulia - Quadrifoglio has class beating performance.
    Stelvio - A CUV that matches Giulia in everything, with little premium above the Giulia.

    Ram - How many best in class towing/payload/whatever do they have by now?

    Chrysler
    Pacifica - Lauded as the Best Minivan.

    Sure there are some gaps in that thought, but it does seem like they are trying to make the vehicles leaders in some respect.

    My guess is the Chrysler and Dodge replacements for the Journey will continue that trend.

    At that point, all that's left is a competitive midsize and compact. I think they will leave it be, and focus on smaller CUVs, since that is where the market is trending. If a compact CUV can get 34-35 MPG now, I think the FCA mindset is that people will flock to that more than a 40MPG small or midsize car.
     
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  13. JeepandRams

    JeepandRams Active Member

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    So what brand would you use for an almost premium front wheel drive crossover leaning more car than SUV?
     
  14. TripleT

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    You want small efficient, four door, hatch, for a good value.... Compass. Only issue is it has 5 inches around the middle. I say SO.
     
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  15. DarkSky

    DarkSky Fully Charged
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    Buick.
     
  16. rapidtrans

    rapidtrans Well-Known Member

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    The only sedans they offer are over 10 yrs old with minor updates over the years. If i need to look at an import alternative for small or midsize as he suggests i'm not looking at a Alfa,Fiat,Lancia. Italy can't touch the quality of a German made vehicle IMO. It appears Alfa has more trouble launching a new vehicle than recent Chrysler launches. Very dissapointing for mopar vehicle fans.
     
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  17. Erik Latranyi

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    Just remember, they are paying down Net Debt to Zero, not total debt. The company will still have about $18 billion in debt when they reach Net Debt Zero.
     
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  18. aldo90731

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    I agree with everything you say. However, if Toyota or Honda find a way to extract 40 MPG out of a $22,000 4-cyl Camry or Accord, all bets are off. We will see this CUV trend stop on its tracks...and then what for FCA...?

    Let's not forget this is precisely the kind of stuff Toyota and Honda used to pull off before they became complacent.
     
    #18 aldo90731, Jul 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
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  19. TripleT

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    Everything I read is the Alfa puts the soulless Germans to shame.... and don't think for a moment that German cars (the land of rework and zero SQL) are all the quality other than perception and good customer service. Same darn control in German car is cutting edge and it massive recall in a Dodge. It doesn't add up. Drive a 2016 Charger and then come back to me about how static it has been. The new one are one of the best Mopar Cars ever made, ask Mike about his. There is nothing Minor that has been done to the Charger the 2006 isn't even in the same Realm..... I know it fun throw BS hand grenades..... My buddy who drive a S was jealous of my Charger. Sure the back seat passengers are happy, but from the drivers seat that means squat.
     
  20. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

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    The end 2018 target is, to be exact and perhaps pedantic: not zero net debt but actually 4 billion euros in 'net cash'. And not all debt is actually availed-of: some of it is simply a paid-for 'line of credit' if and when needed. Besides debt costs are SO low now, while there is a corresponding financial 'penalty' for holding too much mere 'cash.' How much is the imo too large net cash position of say Ford or GM benefitting them? Which imo means.....an aggressive 'M&A'+-spinoff move or two is very likely from fca/exor, come say 2019, if all goes to plan. And/or just the old dividends+-buybacks routine even from fca (finally, after 8 years) just as Ford and GM have been exercizing over the past few years.
     
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