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On FCA US’ carline gaps

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by Dave Z, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. SRTBrandon

    SRTBrandon Active Member

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    I don't think we're going to see gas get above $3/gallon here in the US for the foreseeable future due to increased production/supply and the (slowly starting) market shift towards renewable energy sources. Even if it did though, the gap in MPGs between cars and S/CUVs is less than it's ever been, even if the flat MPG difference hasn't changed much.

    With that, I'm glad FCA is trying to maximize profits on the back of S/CUV sales. I think it's been wise to not rush into the EV craze either as it would be a drag on capital (see Marchionne's comments on the 500e). Assuming FCA hits their financial targets, they should be in a good position to spend more resources on EV R&D and development. From some analysts I've read, that should allow FCA to have a true versatile EV ready for when the markets are predicted to start adopting EVs as a true alternative rather than a niche product.
     
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  2. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    Just because Plymouth, the brand, is gone, doesn't mean FCA should ignore Plymouth, the philosophy. By philosophy, I mean uncomplicated, durable and practical. The Fiat 500X as a base model, should get the departing Dart's 2-liter 4 cylinder with the Aisin 6 speed auto used in other Fiats sold here. Import the the new 500L Cross model with the same drivetrain.

    Why they don't green light selling the Toro here is beyond me. The next Ram with the 48V set up can't be that cheap or economical. FCA should offer a Bohemian Box. The Nissan Cube, Scion Xb and Kia Soul are driven by too many grandparents to be cool. A short wheelbase Ram PMC would work, IF they let it have an industrial persona and tell people it isn't a toy.
     
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  3. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

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    Companies need not only prepare for what it is, but also for what it is likely to be.

    The trend to CUVs is happening primarily at the expense of the midsize sedan. If you look at sales, RAV4 is now outselling Camry and CR-V has been outselling Accord, contrary to what's been for the norm in the prior two decades.

    It is not a matter of where fuel prices are; it is a cost-benefit choice between two products. If you look at the price and MPG of a CR-V vs a 4-cyl Accord, the numbers are within spitting distance of each other. Consequently, for the same money and fuel efficiency buyers are opting for the added practicality, style and, in the minds of many, the more active image of the CR-V relative to Accord.

    If CR-V delivers more for the same amount of money, in this case more style and functionality for a similar price and fuel economy, Accord is at a disadvantage. But if Accord offers its own set of benefits, e.g., higher fuel efficiency and handling, then it has a better chance of being picked over CR-V.

    Toyota and Honda want to stop this migration from sedans to CUVs because this is their bread-and-butter business. Their brands have been defined for a generation by their midsize sedans, and they have a unique competitive advantage in this segment, much like Chrysler does in mininvans. And just as Chrysler set out to revive the segment with Pacifica, you can bet Toyota and Honda are not going to let the midsize sedan fizzle away.

    Coincidentally, both Camry and Accord are due for a redesign this year.
     
    #23 aldo90731, Jul 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
    somber likes this.
  4. wdundas

    wdundas Active Member

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    Well said redriderbob. FCA is an international manufacturer heavily focussed on corporate survival, something the old US-centric Chrysler Corporation wasn't notoriously good at. It's actions are geared toward rebuilding its finances so it can weather the next downturn, not to pandering to the whims of people wjho still think in terms of the old company and its product offerings.
     
  5. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

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    You fail to account for Chrysler's loyal customers.

    I, like many others on here, would like to think we are more than just whimsical old people.
     
  6. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    Small cars don't make much sense IMHO if you just sell them in this country when volumes are going down. If you have something with low profit margins you need to make up for it in volume. Sure, if it is a global model and you get the volume that way that's another story. But why invest tons in a small car that sells less than the LXs for example?
     
  7. TripleT

    Level III Supporter

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    Or worse be like Honda and Toyota and eat it on your high volume cars for a few years to cover fixed costs. FCA just lucked out because they capacity all got shed prior to the Fiat save job. Otherwise they still would be turns sedans at a lose.
     
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  8. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    FCA hadn't done anything spectacular. Just like Chrysler of the past they have risen faster than the market in general. But FCA has also fallen faster than the general market in the past few months. It's way to early to say FCA had proven it can weather a storm any better than Chrysler did.
     
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  9. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

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    @valiant67

    Please do not ignore the fact that fca has HUGE revenues and increasingly profitable operations ex-usa too. All global market regions profitable. Maserati increasingly so. ALfa by early 2018. Magneti marelli. China. India. Jeep globally. Even Japan. Looks like LatAm will very soon also return to good net-profitablity? And a steadier and faster growing, properly buoyed (so it seems for now) European market too for fca which has been HUGELY outperforming there for 2-3 years now, and is still doing so. With increasing platform and powertrain and factory synergies/sharing/scale-economies across brands, whether 'American' or 'Italian'. Plus the massively reduced debt/funding costs (probably near zero in real terms for fca over in europe! ;-))

    THAT too will be how fca usa will 'weather a storm' (usa marketplace) better than the n america-only, scale-deficient, high-cost, ill-managed, maltreated and always-at-great-risk old ChryslerCorp.
     
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  10. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    FCA hasn't been through a down market yet, not a significant one. All those words don't mean anything yet. FCA is unproven in bad times.
     
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  11. rapidtrans

    rapidtrans Well-Known Member

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    Just curious. How does FCA meet CAFE standards selling trucks and Jeeps?
     
  12. DBY2014

    DBY2014 Active Member

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    I think I read FCA actually pays a monetary penalty because they don't completely meet CAFE standards right now.
     
  13. The short answer is -- they don't.

    They are already paying fines or buying credits because their fuel economy is awful. Losing the Dart and 200 made it even worse
    (the below chart had Dart and 200 improving things).

    Not only that -- they are the absolute worst already.... Now that they are focusing even more on Crossovers and Trucks will make
    them incredibly vulnerable to market shifts or regulatory changes.

    [​IMG]

    Fiat Chrysler Automobiles Emissions Strategy: Kick the Can Down the Road -- The Motley Fool (at https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/26/fiat-chrysler-automobiles-emissions-strategy-kick.aspx )
     
  14. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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  15. BASONE88

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    This is really FCA's defining point. And it is the correct one. If they survive, this is why.
    If they survive, this is another reason - why. It's a different company than it has ever been before(from the North American perspective). Not to mention, FIAT(Italy) has a better opportunity, than they have probably ever had, in the North America.
     
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  16. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

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    It's doubtful that you'll have a severe downturn that affects all regional markets simultaneously. Even when the subprime crisis began, it went in waves. first the US, then Europe, then the rest of the world.
    With FCA growing strongly in Europe and Asia, if you have a crisis in the US other geographic regions may be enough to keep FCA afloat. Especially now that Jeep is booming in China.
     
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  17. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

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    They need the new engines as soon as possible. And the plug-in hybrid versions of popular models.
     
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  18. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

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    Speaking of gaps in cars: Honda just revealed its all-new 2018 Accord: AN: Honda resculpts Accord

    As I suspected, they are not going to let the sedan die without putting up a fight.

    I had my doubts about the upcoming Camry, from the photos Toyota had been circulating. But IMO this is a good enough attempt to stop the tide of defection from sedans to CUVs. This is the best-looking Accord I can remember. Especially with the blacked out grille.

    Someone should put a photo of it in front of Mr. Mergionne...so he can start thinking of a Plan B.
     
    #39 aldo90731, Jul 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  19. Moparian

    Moparian Well-Known Member

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    Plus the detuned Type R motor. 252 hp and 273 ft. lbs/tq mated to a 10 speed auto or 6 speed manual.
     
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