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On FCA US’ carline gaps

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by Dave Z, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    Look at the past. Minivans were a market that grew rapidly . Now they are a niche market. Compact pickups were growing strongly. They are now a niche market.

    Will CUVs peak and decline? Or is it a permanent shift? Anyone who claims to know is guessing.
     
    JavelinAMX and jerseyjoe like this.
  2. boblonben

    boblonben MOPAR Guy
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    Have found this whole discussion of great interest, but nary a one touches on what has ended up being the core basic problem with the FCA approach - Putting all the company model lines at the SAME dealership - with a few exceptions. GM does not do that, Ford does not do that, , Honda, nor, Toyota, nor anyone else. by placing all model at the same place causes confusion with the average, uneducated buyer and makes the dealer have to minimize what stock they have to show by the limit of the acreage they have to display and have in stock the vehicles. This also causes the problem we've seen with the Dart/200 thing - two cars almost too close together in size, but not priced and too large a jump in perceived size and cost to Chargers/300's. Have talked with a couple of dealers (no not some sales geek) and to a person they indicate they would rather have separate model dealer ships, and divide out logically model lines, types, etc. For example one dealer network in my area has a separate Jeep dealership and about 1 mile plus away another Chrysler/Dodge dealership. Given a choice he told me he'd prefer to spit the Chrysler away from the Dodge/Ram. But yes right now he has such a limit on Chrysler named models, but thinks a smaller focused dealership would work better, with at least one additional model line, even if it were a Chrysler version of a Dart. Let the Dodge/Ram dealership have a smaller Mexican Neon so as to not compete directly. This would work tremendously well. And in my area there are enough consolidated dealership that one could split them back out and have sufficient dealership for people to go to and shop but have another one to go look at and not be far away to get to - less than 2 miles. And literally NO NEW expense in building or facilities, they are already there!! Fist/Alfa could also do what they have done here - separate dealership, separate sales approaches and it seems to be working ok. And will do better as the Alfa line gets fleshed out, good cars, need identify - I'd buy one. In fact just might. Lots to do, not so much cost to do and existing models which could help quickly and respectively. Good Luck FCA, we need you !!!
     
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  3. Erik Latranyi

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    I do not find the styling to be totally distasteful. But, that is just styling and Honda buyers are not known to be fickle about such things.

    The Jeep Cherokee styling was universally disliked, but it grew on people and sold well.

    If all we have is to attack styling, then we are out of bullets.
     
    AvengerGuy, danbek, DarkSky and 2 others like this.
  4. I'm pretty confident that crossovers will decline based on supply and demand principles. Anytime you flood the market with too
    much of the same product, its intrinsic value is completely destroyed. Auto manufacturers are planning to release far too many
    crossovers over the next few years -- more product than buyers.

    This situation has happened many times before. You would think Chrysler would have learned from the mistakes of the past (but they
    don't). Chrysler bet everything on large cars in the 1970's (for the same reason that Sergio is chasing crossovers and trucks) -- and
    got burned so badly they couldn't recover without a government loan. Focusing on a single segment instead of being a full-line
    automaker is stupid and dangerous. It makes a company vulnerable to market shifts (which constantly happen). Sergio is making some
    bad decisions that will haunt FCA for years.

    You can't exclusively chase margins
    -- because car buyers are fickle and shift their buying patterns every year. Companies that survive
    do so by hedging their bets and diversifying their product mix. I bought 10 Chrysler products in a row -- now the last 2 were from other
    automakers. They abandoned the segment of cars that I drive -- when it was Chrysler's bread and butter (Motor Trend's Car Of The Year
    Cirrus / Stratus) in year's past.
     
    #64 73PlymouthDuster, Jul 15, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2017
    Bill Sample, Ian and jerseyjoe like this.
  5. JeepandRams

    JeepandRams Active Member

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    Is the Renegade is the most sold Italian built vehicle ever in North America? Isn't Maserati selling more cars than ever in the USA? I bet the Stelvio becomes a gotta have vehicle.
     
    Prabhjot likes this.
  6. jerseyjoe

    jerseyjoe Plymouth Makes It

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    Chrysler had a huge bankroll with the FWD cars untill 1999 when Daimler did a U turn and gutted the company then dumped it.
     
    Ian, Dave Z and suzq044 like this.
  7. jerseyjoe

    jerseyjoe Plymouth Makes It

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    I went to a large ( :( ? ) FCA dealer the a month ago to look at a particular 300 that was being advertised for a month now, 3 on the that did not match what I was looking for. The place had the new building the lot was a dump, bottomed out my car while looking for a parking on their lot. I gave the sales person my terms and left my phone number, email and address, no calls so far. Their Chevrolet dealer across the street was amazing. I'm just waiting for prices to hit bottom out I will visit there. Gonna go at first snow fall.
     
    #67 jerseyjoe, Jul 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
  8. jerseyjoe

    jerseyjoe Plymouth Makes It

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    Couples now days have at least 2 vehicles, 1 for shopping and 1 for that 30 to 50 mile commute.
     
  9. jerseyjoe

    jerseyjoe Plymouth Makes It

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    Honda makes great engines.
     
  10. IronMike3406

    IronMike3406 Active Member

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    My take on it.... FCA needs a high feature content entry level car. As for a Medium sized market leave that to the CUV's and work on the interior fit and finishes across the board. FCA has made major strides in bringing the quality levels up across the line but I have noticed some of the newer cars in the lineup have some small shortcomings. As for the shortcomings I see are the way the switchgear feel and lower interior plastics just make it a little less pleasant place to spend your time. 99% of our time in our cars and trucks is spent on the inside so work on economy,comfort,ergonomics,content and quality of plastics and the feel of the switchgear and you will start bringing in customers by the droves. Give them a great price with the best of what FCA can provide us and we can make FCA a force in the market place.
     
  11. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

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    Oh, I can point to other things besides the styling... Their infotainment system is horrendous.
     
  12. TripleT

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    If Honda can't make money on the Civic, would one suggest that FCA must be in that market even if it means opportunity lost and a actual loss?

    Still think people are equating volume to success. In the current mark place there is only 3 ways to fill the FWD C/D car gap. Use existing capacity at a lose, and the revenue lost for a CUV sale just to have some in that gap, Make all the components in a emerging market shipping here, use existing capacity at a small loss to break even and lose the revenue for CUV sold, or completely import a car from Turkey, Russia, or China maybe get a small return of the federalization cost. None seem like great options.

    Some seem to keep focusing on the loss of leadership in the FWD sedan market, while it is true it is irrelevant, in fact had FCA been more successful in that market they might right now be where Honda and Toyota are dependent and bleeding. The fact that Daimler screwed up this market right now is blessing, as FCA was able to move more swiftly than anyone out of it.
     
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  13. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    .

    I rather like the Genesis sedans - both G90 and G80.

    The '18 Honda Accord Sedan is its own design, I acknowledge; however, the styling of this new Accord is close to the Genesis G80.

    I don't think the 2018 Honda Accord Sedan is bad styling at all.

    I don't think in terms of a Sedan for own use. But I wouldn't kick the '18 Accord to the curb.

    I would esteem pretty much any Honda above pretty much any of the FCA products for retention of value/re-sale value and for durability based on family history, neighbors' history, co-worker history, evidence in the press over time.

    And, yes, I've seen them towed. I've seen them come to a halt in the middle of the street to never operate again. Those events have been more rare than other widely distributed vehicles. They have, indeed, had problems as one would expect.

    However, I respect the brand.

    .
     
  14. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    Each to her/his own, however, concerns about an infotainment system as having quite that much sway in the rankings of an automobile is a new one on me.

    I have a crappy throw-away 'smart phone'. Piece of cr@p ... Point being, I could care less about my phone apart from Texting or Emergency Calls; nor do I care about others' phones. Yet, I do see people, who, by appearances, seem to sort their lives under the auspices of their Hand Held. ( I wouldn't be surprised if when I'd get really close to them I'd hear them muttering : "Yes Master ..." . :p )

    A vehicle is so much more to me, that an element of that type would have less weight.

    Now, I'd grant you that if the Infotainment system was so heavily tied to engine/transmission/climate/comfort operations - and those controls were bad enough to affect normal driving operations - then yes, that would elevate it much higher.
     
  15. boblonben

    boblonben MOPAR Guy
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    Nope !!
     
  16. boblonben

    boblonben MOPAR Guy
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    yep, tell that to my neighbor with his brand new CRV that has been towed to the dealer - 38 miles away - for the third time in three months of ownership. Or my body guy who bought his daughter her Civic two months ago, and been ion the dealer three times for engine failure. Guess they forgot something on both of them. Honda, and Toyo's, and Mazda's etc. all break down just like everybody else, and at about the same numbers and percentages. It is the reality of modern electronics and s/w. Live with it.
     
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  17. Erik Latranyi

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    Your anecdotal evidence means nothing.

    An honest discussion is one that uses data collected in the best way possible.

    When you look at data, Honda, Toyota and Kia are in the top bracket of quality while FCA is in the bottom bracket.

    It cannot be argued.
     
  18. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    Your historical narrative is wrong. Chrysler was guilty of bad timing when they introduced the redesigned large cars in the fall of 1973. The Cordoba which followed a year later was a solid hit. Next up was the Aspen/Volare twins. Those A/V cars had a lot of conquest sales, and unfortunately contained a half-baked quality which convinced a generation of consumers to never buy another Chrysler product again.

    When Chrysler was hitting the skids in 1980, vehicle sales were dead across the market for everybody. The cars Chrysler bet the farm on were the K-cars and minivans. Those were the vehicles that sent the Asians back to the drawing board and also brought Chrysler back from the brink.

    This information can be found on the pages of Allpar.

    While I'm at it. The A/V twins days of shame was short lived. The GM X-cars stole their crown as the defect queens. It is sad that GM studied Lancia to design their X-cars and Fiero and then made such crappy copies.
     
  19. BASONE88

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    Actually, everybody abandoned that segment. You know, the Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze were/are no larger than the '90-'93 Accord(which is tiny by today's standards) - and barely bigger than a Corrola thru '02 or so. Dart and 200 dwarf it.
    The previous generation Civic and Acura ILX are ruffly the size of the Stratus but they have a higher cowl and subsequent belt-line(slits for windows).

    See; I have always been mad the Stratus was replaced with the Sebring/Caliber(still knashing my teeth). While I haven't ever considered it from this perspective..you make an excellent point! Serendipity!
     
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  20. Alexbucks

    Alexbucks Guest

    In addition there's no promise that a FWD FCA Midsize sedan would have outperformed in the market place the Malibu (which is an unsuccessful, irrelevant product after multiple attempts).
     
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