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P0441 evap code

Discussion in 'Repairs, Maintenance, Help' started by Bob Lincoln, Apr 10, 2015.

  1. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    My wife's 2012 Chrysler 200 threw a Check Engine light and P0441 code yesterday. I checked the gas cap, and she had apparently not screwed it on enough to 'click' when she filled it about 200 miles prior, as I could turn it tighter before it started to click. When I unscrewed it, there was a loud hiss for about 2-3 seconds (not sure if vacuum or pressure, but probably vacuum). I put the cap back on tight. This morning, filled it and drove about 150 miles today, and maybe about 8-10 engine starts. Check Engine light is still on.

    Any idea if the loose cap would cause the code? If so, how long before it clears itself? The car has to pass inspection this month, and will fail if brought in with a CEL. Of course, I can disconnect the battery, but would rather not, if it will reset soon.
     
  2. ImperialCrown

    Level III Supporter

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    It may take 2-3 days or 100-300 miles depending on 'good trip' conditions. With the passive NVLD (Natural Vacuum Leak Detection) it takes warming and cooling cycles to test for an evap leak. Usually an overnight or two.
    It should be out by Sunday if the evaporative system is secure.
    Your car is too new to be having rubber hose aging issues, but I have seen roughness at the filler tube rim where it meets the gas cap rubber o-ring cause a small leak. I fixed it with light sanding and a smear of a silicone (dielectric) grease.
    If your JS was built before 12/16/2011 and has the V6, then TSB# 18-004-012 may apply. It is discussed here:
    http://www.dodgejourneyforum.com/topic/3176-recalldone-todayi-didnt-know-about/
     
  3. Tori G.

    Tori G. Member

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    Take it to a shop with a smoke machine,you still have a leak somewhere and 99.9% it's not the gas cap.Using the smoke machine is the only way to find the evap leak.I have one myself,the redline and is not cheap new about a grand.
     
  4. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    I agree it is still too early to think there is another leak.

    Plus if you disconnect the battery it takes time again or the car will not pass as it will return not ready codes to the tester.
     
    Bob Lincoln likes this.
  5. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    Car was built late March 2012, less than 2 weeks before we bought it. Has the 2.4L 4-cylinder and 6-speed auto.
    Yeah, I figured it will take a couple hundred miles and/or a couple dozen ignition cycles to clear. We're using it for as many trips as we can this weekend.
    BTW, dash read 32 mpg yesterday, and it ran perfectly.
     
  6. Doug D

    Doug D Virginia Gentleman

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    Back when we had our 2009 Journey the CEL came on right after fueling during a trip. Sometime during the next day the CEL went off - guess it finally hit the required number of drive cycles.
     
  7. Rick Anderson

    Rick Anderson Well-Known Member

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    The system is suppose to be sealed to prevent gas fumes from leaking into the atmosphere. The test OBDII performs a test that is suppose to see if its working, is too change pressure in the system and see's if it holds the pressure. If it does NOT hold the pressure difference, then there must be a leak. Thus a leaking gas cap, or a gas cap that wasn't tightened properly that leaks, will cause the test to fail and the warning light.

    Chrysler and other manufacturers have different methods to pressurize and test the system, and they have changed them radically over the years, to include pumping air into the system to pressurize it to creating a vacuum in the system.

    As well as what IC said, the test has a couple other parameters that need to be present before it starts, the tank can't be empty or full, I've seen spec for 1/8-7/8, but 1/4-3/4 is pretty universal. The motor has to cold soak overnight, and it often has to be a cool morning. Every two to three days is often when the test runs, but I've seen it take 3 weeks before the test ran in one of my cars.
    Obviously my technique is NOT good for a professional, but I got so frustrated with tracking down a EVAP Purge leak one time, I got a cigar and disconnected the lines at the purge valve and blew the smoke from the cigar down the lines. Smoke came out of the pressure relief valve of the cap in my case.
     
  8. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    After 5 days/250 miles or so/ half a tank of gas, the CEL and code cleared. Thanks, all.
     
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  9. Braver69

    Braver69 Member

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    The test for that code only runs when the car is sitting for hours and goes from a hot to cold soak. This causes the gasoline to cool off and contract which causes a small amount of vacuum and closes a switch in the NVLD and thus the car knows the system is sealed. Usually takes about a week for it to reset on it's own, which is basically what it took for you. Always good when car problems are minor.
     
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  10. floridaman2013

    floridaman2013 Active Member

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    Amen Brother on that!
     
  11. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    This code has recurred numerous times since, sometimes with the CEL off, and this time with it on. Now has 60K miles on it. Gas cap is not loose when this happens. Not going to pay for a smoke test when the problem goes away for a few months at a time.
     
  12. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    Code P0441 indicates the engine management software does not like the vapor ratio that is calculated from applying vacuum through the evaporative purge valve to the fuel tank and vapor canister. It only runs after the small leak test is run and passes. Because of that sequence of events you do NOT have an evaporative emission leak in the hoses. A smoke test will produce negative results.

    What is happening is the PCM (powertrain control module) commands a duty cycle that ramps up the ON time for the purge solenoid. This results in an increasing amount of fuel vapors that are brought into the intake manifold and burned. If the change in the vapor air ratio ingested does not meet a predetermined level, then code P0441 is set.

    I suspect either the purge solenoid is sticking and working intermittently or there is some debris or carbon in the valve that is restricting the air flow at the solenoid. You may be able to remove the valve and clean it.
     
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