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PART TWO ~ 2005 Pt Cruiser Will need new head gasket

Discussion in 'PT Cruiser' started by Fullpass, Jan 25, 2017.

  1. Christian Otte

    Christian Otte New Member

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    Don't re-use the head bolts! they must be replaced w/ new ones. Not expensive & available at most auto parts stores. I got mine @ auto zone. You don't want to do this job again! Ditto water pump, I had to junk a Neon I had when the pump seized & crashed the valves.
     
  2. Christian Otte

    Christian Otte New Member

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  3. Christian Otte

    Christian Otte New Member

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    Replying to my own post, The reason my Neon crashed the valves was caused by a seized W/P the timing belt shredded & the valves bent. I would take head to an automotive machine shop & have it checked for straightness and possible damage from the leaking gasket. Mine needed a light surface cut to give me a good surface for the gasket to seal against. cheap insurance.
     
  4. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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  5. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    The top spark plug, most dirty, from number 1 cylinder

    The clean piston photo is number four, was soft carbon, I wiped it clean, number 3 piston had soft carbon wet, I also wiped it clean, oily sock just to keep walls from rusting, number 2 piston, semi wet, partially clean. And number 1 cylinder, just starting to soften..To me...like a full head gasket failure overtime...no pitting on head or block..All the head bolts were tight, when breaking loose..
     
  6. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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  7. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    The top of the photo...is number 1 cylinder with the crusty white valves...which also had the crusty spark plug..I see a place out of Florida has a Cylinder head shop..by the thousands. I can get a remanufactured head with valves $285 shipped with returning prepaid core back...thought that was a good deal. Give them the casting number of head, non turbo, also will give them the casting number of the cams...Hate to part ways with this head, but don't know of anyone that could do the job cheaper.

    Now on the head torque values...I had seen some..that start out at 25lbs then 50, then 50 again, then 1/4 turn...but then I seen some values start out at 25lbs, then 60, then 60 again, then 1/4 turn

    So did Chrysler up the torque value on the head gasket is my question?
     
  8. dana44

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    I would not worry about the sparkplug top, it probably got water or something else that spilled into the hole and crusted up, that's all. You can see where the gasket failed and started leaking between the cylinders in your picture, with the clean piston, so make sure the surface is real clean the way I noted earlier, with the sandpaper scratches on the surface, you want to make sure the cross hatch scratches don't show low spots, the scratches go all the way across the surface. The reman head sounds like a good price, about what it would cost to get a complete valve job. Next thing that hasn't been mentioned is a cause. You may have a poorly working injector, it is about the only thing that blows head gaskets these days, one injector isn't firing properly and the O2 sensor then reads lean or rich, and adjusts the fuel accordingly to compensate, messes things up that way. Sometimes it is difficult to tell a bad injector because of the compensation, so would suggest getting new ones or getting the originals sonic tested/cleaned, make sure they are functioning correctly. And yes, new head bolts, they are "torque to yield" and should only be used once, they are designed to stretch, and don't like to stretch a second time. I don't know as Chrysler changed the torque values, there are now about two dozen torquing sequences across the automotive world.
     
  9. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    Thanks dana44,

    Good info...learn something everyday...will do on the bolts


    Surface of the block is pretty dirty...guess stuff pieces of thing rags down the oil/water valleys until most of the major head gasket debris is removed...then do the cross wet sand...with something flat in hand, Sure that will be a days project...Have about 7/8 hundred dollars worth of parts to order to get this project going and done...Works...then some new shocks and struts..Wet sand/clear coat head lights..restoration headlight project on youtube...getting ahead of my self...half to complete the engine first...just a time thing...

    Thanks for the input everyone...all good info...
     
    #29 Fullpass, Jan 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  10. djsamuel

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  11. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    Went with ODESSA Clear Water Florida...$285 shipped to...and that included free shipping of core back to them...with out cams.

    Its going to be this Thursday or next...to get the part...
     
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  12. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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  13. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    This is from ODESSA...nice job on decking, valves cleaned up...there supposed to have a machine checks for valve stem seal leaks...so I will leave the valves alone...

    But, if you look closely...the THREE PORTS, in between the chambers, to the sides of the bottom of the exhaust valves...shapped like tear drops...found something interesting..See next Pic
     
  14. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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  15. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    Two of the ports completely plugged with either casting sand, or lime/coolant scale...but to me..looked like a combination...was very fine sand and powder...very hard...as you can see...took a drill bit with hand, to twist out...

    They had missed this at ODDESSA...WOULD SAY THEY COULD OF SOAKED THE HEAD IN SOMETHING TO GET THE SCALE/SAND OUT...probably the original problem/or helped some...to over heat this head...

    So much for the 5 year unlimited milage warranty from ODDESSA, but I think I solved the problem...cast was identical to original, other notes on the head, they had used a wire wheel to clean the valve cover surface...ok but even wire wheeled under the cam journals, wasn't happy about that, but think it would still work.

    I did look the cylinder head over a day or so...measuring the valve stem heights, making sure everything would bolt back up right...I'm just expecting to get another 60,000 out of the car...If it was a complete restoration project..I would take my machining to a local shop. They did the minimum, but that is what they said they would do.

    If it weren't for the plugged ports I would give them a 7 out of 10 satisfactory, still better than what I would have gotten at a repair shop, they would have just slipped a gasket N...no valve job, or cylinder head decking...Because they did over look the plugged ports..well less and not satisfactory.

    Expecting to get some work done Thursday, like clean the block head...had been busy...didnt get to that yet...will post more...hope to have the project/engine done in a week.

    Replacing:

    1. cyinder head with valve springs only ODESSA
    2. Fel-Pro head gasket set...local engine rebuilder..said a bit thicker, no returns, hold up good
    3. Fel-Pro head bolts
    4. OEM Water pump, hoses
    5. OEM timing belt, tensioner, idler
    6. new belts, AC, ALT

    PREVIOUS OWNER had installed
    1. new radiator
    2. new fan
    3. new thermostat
    4. new low speed relay

    Should be good to go...

    Car is not to bad to work on...simple If I ever found a Cherry PT convertible turbo...needing head gasket...I would restore it better, new rollers/rockers, lifters cam, new head, Cams.

    Will post more...maybe it will help the next guy
     
  16. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    I do have one Important Question!

    On a car that has a distributor, can take the distributor shaft out...and prime the motor with an adaptor and a electric drill..pump the system..
    On the PT...all the head oil galleries are empty...how say you fill them before start up...will make sure lifters have oil in them..and have assembly lube on lobes, stem tips, rollers, oil on valve stems, springs..anything else I can do...will change engine oil after initial start up...so as to have oil in most of the system.
     
  17. dana44

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    With everything cleaned up and all that, before you install the valve cover, take a quart of your oil and just pour it over the cams and followers, that will lubricate enough until the oil fills the gallery and pressurizes fine. All the lifters (sic) should have been oiled upon installation, so they will be OK. At least that is what I have done without an issue, it is a "roller" cammed engine so they don't require special cam/lifter/follower/etc., treatment.
     
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  18. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    Thanks dana44
     
  19. ImperialCrown

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    Does the head gasket have passages for those coolant holes in the head? That used to be a difference between regular head gaskets and turbo head gaskets.
    Is the Fel-Pro a fiber gasket or multi-layer steel (MLS)? I have had to do pressed fiber gaskets over before. The MLS is a much better choice. You only want to do this job once.
     
  20. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    ImperialCrown,
    Head gasket coolant passages..looks like cylinder number Four has two extra coolant passages in gasket, cylinders 1,2,3 have just a coup small passages for coolant...So must be non turbo gasket, which would be the correct gasket for this application.

    The Fed-Pro is a (MLS) 3 layer steel, might be stainless don't know...outer layers...each side has a blue coating...Fel Pro Blue Color sealer

    I did Return/going to Return the ODDESA CYLINDER HEAD...

    I WILL TELL YOU WHY...everything looked great..deck, valves, intake/exhaust surfaces FROM ODDESA

    Problem I saw..WHY I RETURNED

    I had mentioned ODDESA HAD wired brushed the top of the head and across the cam journals, Wire Brushing had removed to much material from the cam journal...out on the ends where the end cap journal fit over the guide pins...was ..010 higher at the ends..(not wire brushed vs the center journal were the material was removed...just thought the caps would be to tight, less oil flow, and flex the cams to much... .010 is a lot of flex, premature were, I noted to the seller, everything would have been great if he/she would not have wire brushed over the head journals for the Cam...not trying to nick pick...but not trying to have the motor self destruct either. Oh..second the wire brushing had left nasty burs on inside of journals at the top edge...so that was it..going back.

    So ordered a nice heavy duty overhead spring compressor..someone had mentioned on this forum, Gum 2 + 2 cleaner, to decarbonized the cylinder head chamber ports, alone with some brass dermal wire brushes, and a bass brush for the bench grinder. Yep you guessed it, going to have my original cylinder head decked, and lap my own valves. Had bought a valve stem remover/install tool also on Amazon...Watched a lot JeffoMobile videos on youtube...Thought, I could do that...after watching the videos on youtube...actually had watched & learned a ton from that guy, just another source, like here talking with you folks.

    So currently waiting for a couple tools to start my own work from Amazon...two day shipping on Prime trial...will be here on Sunday...wow ...that is great shipping. AND & will have all the origin parts being placed back in the exact location, lifter, roller rockers, valves, head and cams will match...should of done this in the first place...thought it would save time ordering from eBay, just cost me time, and probably a self destructing engine, hopefully, I will do my best, with the original parts, and can only blame myself...if something goes wrong, but doing my best to get the job done right within reason...could build a great upper cylinder head, only to be disappointed by the lower block not holding up...Someday I will be working on a car that has greater value...and I have learned a ton on this car already.

    Will keep you posted...and pics of my cylinder head rework.
     

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