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Product, Product, Product

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by ShawnP, Jun 26, 2020.

  1. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    The double standards are obvious. We are told FCA can’t invest in Chrysler or Dodge because Jeep and Ram are where the profits are and “it’s all about margin”. Then FCA invests in lower margin markets instead of the high margin markets, and anyone who points out this inconsistency gets labeled as a nationalist.
     
  2. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    AFAIK last year PSA had +8% margin in the EU
     
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  3. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    I think the case can be made that whatever margins happened before the pandemic or anything else that looked like normal is gone for a few years at best. This merger now is, or at least it should be about long term survival for these companies. So whatever plans were in the works before, will, or should be rethought.
     
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  4. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    Did Opel do the Ecotec 4 cylinders for GM? Wonder which engines PSA is using primarily these days and how they are consolidating things.

    Once Buick loses its car models this year it is down to three models. And Lincoln will be down to 4. Am curious how successful the CT4 and CT5 will be for Cadillac.

    Am also curious how long BMW, Audi and MB can keep up offering so many different models.
     
  5. ShawnP

    ShawnP Active Member

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    Ram and Jeep do bring big profits.

    Chrysler and Dodge can still bring profits.

    30% of investment dollars each- Ram, Jeep
    20% of investment dollars each- Dodge, Chrysler
     
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  6. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    How many models do BMW, Audi, and Mercedes really sell? To me they resemble C-P-D of the 1950s and 1960s. Not many models really, but lots of variations.
     
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  7. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    No engines or platforms were carried over from Opel. As new models were refreshed, they were relaunched on PSA platforms with PSA power trains. PSA bought Opel to acquire a brand and marketshare in Northern Europe - there really was no IP left in Opel, and the brand was using GM Korea designs for its new cars.
     
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  8. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    And that will be the thing to observe moving forward. Which platforms survive and which do not. Since all the pairing down will be fwd based platforms the fair way in a true merger would be keep the best. I'm sure both PSA and FCA believe theirs are the best. Both won't survive long term.
     
  9. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    Both are relatively new, and it's more likely that you'll see the next generation being a single component set that includes the best parts of both FCA and PSA's designs (like the GME and GSE engine families combined features of current and past Chrysler and FIAT designs).

    It will be hard to see a "winner" or "loser" in 10 years, as both groups have good solutions in different areas. Until the merger is signed off, no IP sharing can occur, so the very earliest you'll see a joint car is 2023 (calendar), but it could be later, depending on lifecycles.
     
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  10. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    To me the irony being that while one could say that other than for Jeep and RAM the product situation in the US is a bit dire it seems almost worse for FCA in Europe. They almost need PSA to still remain relative over there. And where it is a win win is that it looks like PSA has some vehicles that could do well in the US as well. The merger can’t come soon enough in my opinion. While the new Alfas seem to be really great vehicles there doesn’t seem much of a market for them. Hopefully with some of PSA helps some of that innovation can be reused.
     
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  11. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    Even though they seem to be well received, the launch flaws plus the demise of sedans seems to have haunted Alfa. With that said why doesn't their CUV sell better? That's a very good case for not reinventing the wheel with Charger and Challenger, just massage the outside and give them fresh insides. I'd do the same to the 300. Those three have the markets pretty much to themselves.
     
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  12. ShawnP

    ShawnP Active Member

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    It's gonna be UGLY in Louisville for new Classics.

    Only 155 new (19 and 20's) are available in the Louisville area.

    That inventory is gonna be gone within a month.

    A pleasant problem but it might cost sales.

    The high/low mix has worked so good that it looks to self-financing Warren's big upgrades.
     
  13. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

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    Because you confuse investments dictated by brand with investments dictated by product range inside a region. You stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that FCA is organized by geographical areas with distinct investment plans by geographical areas and different product launch calendars.
    It's not the EMEA CEO, and CFO that are boycotting the launch of new Dodge and Chrysler models. It's the NAFTA management.

    Go direct your complaints there. But I bet whatever you want that they have the market data analytics to support their decision of prioritizing Ram and Jeep over Dodge and Chrysler.
     
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  14. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    No confusion here. Just pointing out inconsistencies.
     
  15. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    So if I get it right and it can't work differently.

    You guys want it to stop investment into Ram and Jeep and instead shift it to Chrysler and Dodge.
     
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  16. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    If a company can't invest in all brands, it either has too many brands or too few resources. It's just that simple.
     
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  17. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    Valiant's right, if there's not enough to go around then there are too many brands. Even the "good" brands get hurt because there's not enough money to compete in new markets for them. The Wagoneer twins are a good example. These should've been out some time back, but they weren't because of one of two reasons. Not enough cash, or no one wanted to take a risk. If it's the last one then those folks probably should look for work elsewhere, because while nothing is a sure thing, these are close. And being produced in a plant with other product to help spread costs makes them even more of one.
     
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  18. Ryan

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    I think it's probably best that they are going to be based on the DT rather than DS or an evolved WK platform, as they would have been if they were released several years ago.
     
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  19. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    It can cost a decent amount of $$ to shutter a brand...let alone two of them...but I assume it’s more expensive to keep brands running when they’re not doing well. I have no idea what they’re plans are for Dodge and Chrysler...maybe they don’t either right now because of the merger. However, if they’re not planning on investing more product into those brands, then what would be the point of keeping them around?

    Journey and GC are going away. 300 probably won’t be far behind. Can they fold the remaining vehicles into the other brands?

    Lots of questions. But FCA, and whatever the new Corp will be called, are in the business of making money. If a brand can’t be salvaged, then it’s time to jettison...and that goes for all the brands. Sentimentality does not pay your bills.
     
  20. Ryan

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    There is life left in Dodge. As for Chrysler... probably not.
     
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