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PSA and FCA formally agree to merge

Discussion in 'Peugeot, Citroën, DS (PSA)' started by T_690, Dec 18, 2019.

  1. Tin Man 2

    Tin Man 2 Active Member

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    imho the Pacifica is styled wrong, the Caravan had a bit of Truck in it,s DNA! The Pacifica is all egg shape minivan. The attempt to go upmarket failed again. Just like the original Pacifica.
     
  2. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Active Member

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    I wouldn't be crying salty blue tears for the blue oval just yet (or ever). As long as they know how to turn out a decent pickup truck, they won't be going anywhere, except perhaps into the paws...OOPS!...I mean arms of VAG.
     
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  3. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    You can be the “best” at something and still not be desirable.

    It’s hard to not recognize that minivans offer tremendous utility, especially for families. But if someone doesn’t like a minivan, they buy a CUV despite it having less utility.

    A minivan may have a lot of utility, but perhaps not as much capability. How many have offered AWD? If you need or want it, then Pacifica hasn’t been for you.

    You can recognize the value in Pacifica, with all the available options and technology, but if you can’t afford the price tag then none of that matters. You go for a less expensive option, whichever that may be.

    Then there’s the old “Chrysler’s are junk” reputation. Like it or not, Chrysler does not have a stellar reputation, and it’s still a knee-jerk reaction for many customers to head directly to a Toyota or Honda...or another brand’s dealership (for right, wrong, or indifferent). It’s hard (not impossible) to overcome that, but it will take consistent effort over time.

    So Pacifica may be a great option, and may be recognized as such, it doesn’t necessarily translate into sales success.
     
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  4. BASONE88

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    That's easy. Price.

    You can't have what that vehicle is for less $$$. Has to be affordable to sell like hotcakes. It has, essentially, left behind the original market is was intended for. That, indeed, is one of the issues..(as mentioned).

    But this is not the "Chrysler Identity" thread (so, I digress)..:D
     
  5. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    But yeah, it kinda is. Right now Chrysler's identity is tied directly to the Pacifica. One thing I'm hopeful for moving forward is PSA has had decent luck keeping it's brands going with what is essentially the same cars, just tweaked a different grille perhaps. Hyundai/Kia does this well. Hopefully with the right management the same will work here.
     
  6. BASONE88

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    IMHO, I don't think Chrysler (the brand) is going anywhere. Can't wait to see what is new! Hoping to see some form of that Airflow Concept.

    BTW, neither the Pacifica nor the 300 are where the market is going anymore (another issue). But they are sellers(and who better, right now, to fill the niche?).

    Hopefully, things stay kind of the same. Meaning, if you want a Pacifica (or any Chrysler) - you have to buy from that brand. I think FCA finally got it sorted properly so your Dodge is a Dodge, RAM is a RAM, Jeep is a Jeep, FIAT is a FIAT etc., etc..
     
  7. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    "Chrysler" was also dead center in he DCX ac
    But what is Chrysler? Cars that don't fit anywhere else? A line to handle the entries in niche or declining segments? Will Chrysler sell CUVs, something which even Jeep is having trouble with now that the market is saturated and becoming a commodity market? Will Chrysler be the hybrid/electric while all he other divisions already introducing more entries in that segment? Will Chrysler be the home for Americanized Peugeots like Eagle became the home for Americanized Mitsubishis? Some undefined and uninspiring thing like people movers or mainstream?

    Each year that's went by has meant it will cost more to revive and be harder to revive Chrysler's image.
    It will take a car like the 2005 300 or the PT Cruiser plus great followup products. And FCA has shown no indication they can come up with that type of home run for Chrysler. Can PSA?
     
  8. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    But the way things are now right now is kinda what’s keeping Chrysler the way it is right now. Dodge has a minivan and a smaller 3-row CUV....yeah, I know they’re going away but they’re still here right now. Jeep has pedestrian versions of all it’s models except Wrangler and Gladiator, and those versions would suit Chrysler well...if they thought they would sell as well as Chrysler’s, or so the argument has been here over the past few years.

    We’ve heard a few versions of what the “vision” for Chrysler would be, and as of right now that vision is in need of some glasses because it’s blurry as all get out.

    Hopefully now with the merger, all things will get sorted out, with product moving forward and brand identities being defined. Oh, and quality, reliability, and dealer experience too...pretty please, with a cherry on top. :D
     
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  9. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Active Member

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    Credit where credit is due. As far as I remember, I think you were probably the first one here to ring out the warning bells that...once the SUV / CUV market became saturated...that FCA would find itself in the very same uncomfortable position they were in when they chose to toss the Dart & 200 overboard.

    Well...now it's finally happened. One might have thought FCA would have learned a lesson from Dart / 200...but I guess a little common sense is too much to hope for at FCA.

    CARLOS!!!......CARLOS!!!...Hurry up and save us already!
     
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  10. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Active Member

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    Are you sure glasses are all that's needed?
    I was thinking more along the lines of laser surgery.:D
     
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  11. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    Yup, he was one of the first saying that. I was saying it too. Some here were touting crossovers and “tall cars” as the second coming of sliced bread, but I said if the industry didn’t learn from their failures and adjust their business practices then they’d end up in the same sinking boat as they were with sedans. The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different result.

    We’re seeing the saturation of the CUV market, and still Dodge and Chrysler are only talking about their future CUV offerings. Entering a saturated market with new offerings is already putting your product at a disadvantage to already established players...and it’s an uphill battle from there. Not impossible by any means, just more difficult.

    The how’s and why’s of product changes, delays, and cancellations has been discussed here ad nauseam, so need to rehash all of that, but it doesn’t change the fact that the corporation still has yet to produce new or update existing product in some of the most important segments.

    Hopefully this changes in the near future.
     
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  12. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Chrysler would be smart to sit out the CUV wars then. Unless theirs was a real leap forward somehow. I fear after all the saturation, the market might move back to sedans people can get in and out of. If so, a 300 refresh is money well spent.
     
  13. Stéphane Dumas

    Stéphane Dumas Well-Known Member

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    Not only on sedans but maybe also on 2-door coupes.
     
  14. unverferth

    unverferth Well-Known Member

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    Well I sure see a lot of Pacificas in my part of the country (NW Ohio).
     
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  15. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    The Pacifica isn’t a sales failure. It’s sales have been well up to par with its peers, namely the Honda Odyssey. Expecting it to sell at the same level or more as the heavily discounted GC is just asking for an uphill battle.
     
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  16. BASONE88

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    Yes.
    Maybe.;)
     
  17. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

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    IMHO, the only people saying Pacifica (RU) is a sales "failure" are folks who are dwelling on it not being named T&C and continuing to compare its sales to a cheaper RT DGC. Some delude themselves into believing their old GC/T&C rides better than an RU, that's how emotionally tied to T&C some folks on here are. They've made their point, but at this point in time, "T&C vs Pacifica" is a dead issue. RU Pacifica sells for what it is. The big question is how is the RU Voyager going to be perceived and will Caravan owners take to it as a replacement where cost takes Pacifica out of the equation.
     
  18. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Voyager isn't really cheaper than Pacifica.
    All they did was remove the lower trim levels from Pacifica can call those low trim levels Voyager for 2020. They didn't create a Voyager that was much, if any, cheaper than the base 2019 Pacifica from last year.

    As for failure, it is obvious they expected higher sales and higher margins from Pacifica based on the talk before the van came out. That didn't materialize so I'd say "sales disappointment" rather than "failure".
     
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  19. flffddy

    flffddy Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that they should sit out the CUV wars, but I think it's crazy to take your existing niche vehicle in the 300, throw it away, and then hope people will come to buy your currently non-existent CUVs that have no discernible advantage over the competition. I mean, why would anyone buy a Chrysler CUV? What does it offer that I can't get from Jeep, or Toyota, or Kia, or Lincoln, or Cadillac? I don't even know what market it's aimed at. I know there's only one company that I can buy an affordable but premium V8 sedan, and that's Chrysler, but if the brand doesn't want to be that brand anymore, I don't know that I want to buy it anymore.
     
  20. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

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    Better fuel economy than Jeep (assuming it's not just a Jeep disguised as a Chrysler), not a foreign brand (no matter how many people claim it's a "Fiat,") and less expensive than Lincoln or Caddy.
     

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