Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by chfjim, Sep 29, 2016.
Do you have a link Voice?
No - replay not yet available (and I don't know that recording a Town Hall is entirely appropriate), but others can corroborate.
My god it's finally happening!!
"The vehicles that we've launched and the strategy of DS/DT running together as a classic I think is creating some disturbance with our competitors because being able to cater for those work like trucks of the lower end of the segment but also produce the most luxurious truck with twelve inch phenomenal infotainment and be very, very quickly followed by the T-Rex . . . it gives us all the things we need in our portfolio to be able do that [make Ram number one in North America]"
- Mike Manley, 2019-02-28 Global Town Hall
Very very quickly can't mean 2022 right?!
That's awesome to read! Can't wait!!!!!
Someone needs to start sketching the open mouth roar of Trex for a fender badge like hellcat and demon. Lol..
With a velociraptor in its mouth!
It reminds me . . . of a story . . .
Once upon a time, Yamaha produced a 113 horsepower cruiser called the “V-Max”. It owned the high volume production motorcycle top speed record at 150 mph. Kawasaki, wanting a piece of the performance pie bested that effort with a 176 mph ZX-11 Ninja. Honda, not appreciating being out performed responded with the Blackbird and its 188 mph top speed that was named after the SR-71 Blackbird military jet, the fastest aircraft in the known universe.
An enterprising Suzuki engineer named Koji Yoshirua, noticed a clever equivocation on the name “Blackbird”. While also the name of a jet, there is also a bird by the same name . . . and that bird has a natural predator, the Peregrine Falcon - which happens to be the fastest bird on Earth, capable of dives approximately 200 miles per hour. The Japanese name for Peregrine Falcon is “Hayabusa”, which literally translates to strength/power and speed.
In 1999, Suzuki released the GSX-1300 R Hayabusa (隼), a 1,300cc (1.3L) crotch rocket clocked in stock configuration at just under 200 mph, eviscerating the prior speed record of the Blackbird by over ten miles per hour (depending on which speed recording is used for reference) - a significant margin at the time.
It was a tremendous commercial success. It would break the national speed limit (70 mph) in first gear. It can do over 100 mph in second gear. It has four more gears to go on the way to near 200 mph speed.
More than once was a T-shirt seen featuring a “Hayabusa” (Peregrine Falcon) eating a Blackbird with the caption stating, “It isn’t bragging if it’s true!”
Ram is going to sell gobs and gobs of TRX Rebels.
Typically, a new sportbike model sells well in its first year, and then sees its numbers decline every year as it grows older. The Hayabusa reversed this pattern, selling in greater numbers every year from the 1999 launch through the 2008 revision. From its debut in 1999 to June 2007 over 100,000 Hayabusas were sold worldwide. In the United States in each of the years 2005 and 2006, over 10,000 units were sold.
It was predicted that the gentlemen's agreement speed cap would hurt sales, because buyers would not want a bike that was hobbled with a speed limiter, even riders who would never approach the hypothetical maximum. However, sales in the United States have increased year after year since its release in 1999 until 2006 and went from just a few thousand units in 1999 to over 10,000 in 2006.
Suzuki Hayabusa - Wikipedia (at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Hayabusa )
CAUGHT: 2021 Ram 1500 Rebel TRX Testing On The Streets: - 5th Gen Rams (at https://5thgenrams.com/caught-2021-ram-1500-rebel-trx-testing-on-the-streets/ )
CAUGHT: 2021 Ram 1500 Rebel TRX Testing On The Streets: (at https://www.allpar.com/forums/threads/caught-2021-ram-1500-rebel-trx-testing-on-the-streets.218801/ )
Ford F-150 Raptor Getting Supercharged V-8 from Mustang GT500 (at https://www.caranddriver.com/news/amp26912015/ford-f-150-raptor-v-8-supercharged/ )
This rivalry is gonna be awesome.
A win-win for every car enthusiast..
The big question. I alluded to this in the Wikipedia page that the RedEye engine from the Demon had more horsepower than the previous Hellcat engine, yes, but much of the difference between the two was stronger internal parts in the Redeye. Truck engines generally have lower horsepower numbers for the same displacement as car engines because they are tuned differently and have higher durability requirements.
Take the 392 engine for example - the same 6.4L v-8 has higher horsepower in the cars than it does in the Power Wagon and Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT.
So, FCA could very well be planning to put the Redeye engine in the TRX and because you have a bigger engine bay in the truck than you do the cars, you have more cooling and airflow options. It is the airflow improvements that took the new Hellcat horsepower numbers up to 717 from 707. It was also airflow restrictions that take the RedEye engine down to 797 from the Demon’s pump gas 804. That was due to the Air Grabber hood on the Demon catching too much air, causing front end lift at high speed, that compelled Dodge to use the two smaller hood scoops on the Challenger Redeye.
Trucks don’t have any high speed front end lift concerns because their top speed is limited by those 4x4 off road tires.
So it is entirely possible that the TRX could have more than 800 horsepower - without a Hellephant engine.
That is one of the big questions that remains. Will the TRX have a version of the Redeye engine? Will it ever? Will they someday decide to stuff a Hellephant engine in it if Ford decides to leapfrog Ram with horsepower?
I don’t know. “They” have stated unequivocally that there are no plans to put a Hellephant engine in any production vehicle, but would FCA/Ram still maintain that abstinence if Ford beats them on horsepower? That mindset could change. I’m not suggesting it *will*, just that it *could*. Yes, it would lose horsepower to emissions compliance and it would need expensive development to satisfy production truck reliability requirements, but those are problems and engineers love to solve problems.
That said, I was giddy about 575 horsepower and I’m confident we’re going to get a lot more than that even without a Redeye based truck engine.
My analysis on price:
Raptor starting price is $54,500 or so, but with options, yes, well over $70,000. If I recall, the average selling price is $72,000.
The Trackhawk starts at $86,000, but I did an autotrader search, and found more than one listed as new, with options for under $80,000. It is not uncommon for them to remain on the lot for six months or more from what I understand, so FCA may have learned a lesson from that. Sure, some early adopters will gladly pay over six figures for the bragging rights, but once those few enthusiast sales are settled, they overpriced it for the rest of us to maintain sales. Even though they are available for under $80,000, public perception is that it is too expensive and many people write it off without further consideration. Even though, when you consider what it is you’re getting even for top dollar, it is still a bargain compared to the competition.
They were able to get away with that on the Demon because it was a limited run (3,300 if I recall), where they have already sold 7,000 or so Trackhawks If rumors are correct.
For the TRX, I don’t think they want to price themselves out of the market. However, it depends on their strategy. If they do make the TR, I would expect that to be price competitive with the Raptor, and if they are going head to head with the Raptor with the TR, they can charge whatever they want for the TRX and $85,000 might not be unrealistic. Latest rumor was they were reconsidering whether or not to make a TR. If there is no TR, I don’t think they can ask that high a price and expect the TRX to sell well. It will definitely be more expensive than the Raptor but if they go too high, many will simply pass.
FCA is no doubt doing market analysis to determine how much they can ask and still get the required sales volume out of it (and lower trims as the TRX will elevate awareness of the brand), but that same market analysis determined that $85,000 was appropriate for the Trackhawk.
My guess is a starting price between $65,000 and $80,000. That’s quite a swing, but there are many factors involved. If a TR exists as an option, the TRX would go for more, but without a TR to drive volume, I think pricing the TRX above $80,000 would be a mistake.
(all references to price being “starting” price, not out the door price)
Voice, I hope your right on demon/red eye engine making its way into the trx, but I doubt it would happen right away. I'm sure the strategy would be to start with the hellcat motor for two years, then roll out the upgrade, they will get quite a few people to trade up at that point.
I hope your right on pricing too, but I really do think with a few basic options this will be a 100k truck all day long.
Voice, FYI demon on pump gas is 808. Just sayin.
Great point - if they start with a Redeye, they limit their future options concerning updates (things they do to keep Ram in the headlines).
Ah - thank you, 808/840 - I knew there was a four in their somewhere.
Sadly I agree with F8Demon, the TRX is going to be 90k+ with typical options.
Anytime I discuss vehicle price, I’m referring to starting price. While that is misleading, the wide variance in optional expenses makes other comparisons hard to evaluate. I typically add about $8,000 or more in options when pricing out a vehicle, so yes, MSRP on a well equipped TRX will likely go north of $90k.
1 TRX mule with demon engine. 39 with hellcat....
Exclusive: Ram Rebel TRX Details Revealed (at https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motor1.com/news/315797/new-details-ram-rebel-trx/amp/ )