Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by chfjim, Sep 29, 2016.
OMG, you're tracking a Busa??? Brave man. Only bike I could never successfully draft down a straightaway. Would tuck in right behind one out of a corner but half way down the straight they would just hit warp speed.
We also used to refer to them as Hi-I'm-A-Bus because they were so big compared to anything else on track
They have a reputation for poor handling, but it is unwarranted. They may take a slightly wider line going into a corner, but my Pirelli diablo app has me at 61 degrees lean angle - on public roads (the phone is in my pocket, not on the bike, but that was the angular measurement on both sides - I also put the phone in the bike storage area with the tools once - same values, but it was not affixed to the center line of the bike so I may never know the true lean angle, which I understand tops out at about 56 degrees for most sport bikes). They handle fine . . .
Next bike though is the Ducati Panigale V4. Somewhere on the order of 30 more horsepower than my 2000 Busa and roughly 100 lbs. lighter.
To give you some idea of comparison . . .
- breaks the national speed limit in first gear (70 mph)
- breaks 100 mph in second gear
- there are four more gears to go
- top speed in stock configuration is roughly 200 mph
The Ducati Panigale v4 has more horsepower and weighs less.
There was a gentleman's agreement circa 2001 artificially limiting top speed to 186 mph (300 kmh).
The Panigale v4 has an interesting way around that - the speedomoter simply stops incrementing at 300 kmh/186 mph, but the bike doesn't stop accelerating - well played Ducati, well played . . .
Anyway, towing such things is why I need a TRX - the current ride can't handle it very well. I also want something that I can foot stomp for fun both on and off the dunes.
SPOTTED: 2021 Ram Rebel TRX Caught Wearing Laramie Longhorn Fascia: - 5th Gen Rams (at https://5thgenrams.com/spotted-2021-ram-rebel-trx-caught-wearing-laramie-longhorn-fascia/ )
To summarize a portion the article, rumor is the production TRX gets the latest Rebel grille but a mondo sized scoop on the hood and an alternative bumper.
I used to ride with a small group that had a couple of Busas in it. When we’d ride in NW Ark, they just couldn’t hang in the tighter stuff....but they’d catch back up. I don't ever recall seeing any at my track days.
I read that write up. Thats a dumb choice to “shelve” the 7.0L powered TR.
I was doing OK following a local zipping through Deal's Gap on a 600 from my 'Busa - I was straining, but was right there with him - that is until my front brake locked up. Apparently, I boiled the brake fluid. Fortunately for me, I was between corners when it happened and was upright.
That was the trip that introduced the revelation that I needed more grunt for the towing vehicle. When I started at FCA late 2016, I started looking through the lineup (prior to that my background involved 17 years of EDS work in and around GM (including time spent on the Delphi contract). I had owned two Jeeps long ago (well used long before I got to them). Anyway, I was decided on and anxious to get a Jeep Grand Cherokee on order . . . that is until that day I stumbled upon an old "Scoop" article featuring the Ram Rebel TRX. At which point I had to learn everything about it. The rumor that sent me into orbit was the one about it being available by the end of the year (2017) for $55,000 (Car & Driver). Well, we know how that worked out . . .
But I'm thinking a TRX will tow my motorcycle trailer effortlessly - and I can drop off the trailer and take it to Silver Lake in the same weekend!
As far as Busas at track days in all of my time on tracks (that is to say, all three days of it . . .) I saw one other 'Busa - maybe two. I don't recall. They are rare. There were many who seemed to marvel at my knee dragging on one, but, the evidence is clear, it is absolutely possible. I do take a wider corner entry, but once I get 'er over, she swims through the turns.
It wasn't welcome news at first, but it could have a positive effect:
Follow me on this -
If there is a TR, it would still be more expensive than the Raptor. Analogous to the JGC SRT and the JGC Trackhawk, the supercharged version is significantly more expensive than the TR. Now . . . if there is no TR, to be anywhere close to competitive with the Raptor on price, the vehicle Mike Manley publicly admitted they are going after, it has to be priced competitively. Meaning, if there is a TR, TRX will be way out of reach for many, but if there is no TR, the TRX - which will be more expensive than a TR - will not be nearly as much as the TRX if there were a TR. Make sense?
In short, having a TR drives up the price of the TRX.
My guess is, they did some market analysis and found the sweet spot for the MSRP based on their research. That number simply did not have room for two high end models. They aren't looking to cannibalize the standard Rebel and there just isn't room for three variants of the Rebel "brand".
The Rebel starts at $44.9k:
Build & Price a 2019 Ram 1500 DT today! | Ram (at https://www.ramtrucks.com/build.ram_1500_dt.2019#/models/zipcode/48045/vehicle/CUT201920/ccode/CUT201920DT6H98A/llp/2TZ/options/ERG,DFT,TUM,WBB,E1,DMC,UAA,Z6B,X8,PSC,23Z,APA )
The Raptor starts at $52.855k
2019 Ford® F-150 Raptor Truck | Model Highlights | Ford.com (at https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/models/f150-raptor/ )
A Ram Rebel TR would probably go for around $55k to start and a TRX would be at Demon/Trackhawk levels. The Demon was a limited edition (3,300) and there is already a valid argument that the Trackhawks are over priced:
Autotrader - page unavailable (at https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=483711556&zip=48045&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D48045%26listingTypes%3DNEW%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceASC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Don%26modelCodeList%3DJEEPGRAND%26makeCodeList%3DJEEP%26searchRadius%3D0%26trimCodeList%3DJEEPGRAND%257CTrackhawk&listingTypes=NEW&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&modelCodeList=JEEPGRAND&makeCodeList=JEEP&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=JEEP&modelCode1=JEEPGRAND&clickType=listing )
Ergo, unless the TRX were a limited edition, it will not command Demon/Trackhawk prices, which means, it will be substantially less. If it is substantially less, who would opt for the TR when the TRX is only a few thousand more? There may not be a place for the TR.
I would like to see a TR as an option, but I think I get why they may have taken it out of consideration. I'm just guessing, but it seems plausible. My hope is, the decision to abandon the idea of a Ram Rebel TR is because they want to make the Ram Rebel TRX accessible to a wider audience. The actual sales numbers of the Trackhawks may have factored into that decision (several months ago if I recall the sales were in the 7,000 range - I suspect they are well over 10,000 by now, but there are still many "new" 2018s available for sale and they stopped commanding above MSRP a long time ago).
FCA may have learned their lesson with the Trackhawk. They got some early adopters to overpay (even above MSRP), but once that limited audience got what they wanted, the rest of the buying public considered the offering to be too expensive (even though, for what you are getting, it is a huge bargain). They're still making money on them because they are so high margin, so the project is still considered a success (I'm guessing), but I think they can get the same initial overly enthusiastic prices for the TRXs when they first come out, then sustain sales by having more reasonable pricing for the long run.
It will still be a very expensive truck - over $80k-$90k fully loaded, but my guess is it will start somewhere under $70k. Would a $60k TR make sense in the context of a sub $70k TRX? I don't know. There is also no guarantee they won't make it, but we'll see.
I only recall ever seeing two in my years on track. Both in the earlier days of production when they were a big thing.
You can tow a motorcycle trailer with about anything, especially a sportbike. Before I bought my first Ram truck I used an Old's Cutlass to tow all over the northeast and mid-Atlantic. Never had an issue.
My trailer is enclosed and while my current ride was able to make it through the hills of Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina, it was a struggle. My eyes were glued to the engine coolant temperature and I could only run air conditioning when going down hill. Sufficient, yes, but at 281,000 miles, it has served its purpose. A TRX, while not designed for max towing capacity, will have none of those problems. Also, we've got two bathrooms to completely gut and tile/mortar far outweigh a sportbike (my trailer has seen far more use for home improvements, materials, landscaping projects, etc. than sportbike towing - unfortunately).
This was posted by someone to a FB group!
“Pretty quiet out here but looks like some RAM engineers are testing a new model. Exhaust sounded awesome and at least one of them had a supercharger whine. They had rollcages too, for testing only I'm sure. Maybe a RAM Hellcat model?”
A day with the toys out on Silver Lake?
Had to copy/paste those! Very cool - thank you!
CAUGHT: Ram 1500 Rebel TRX Prototypes Hit The Dunes: - 5th Gen Rams (at https://5thgenrams.com/caught-ram-1500-rebel-trx-prototypes-hit-the-dunes/ )