AF: Rendered: Theoretical Next-Generation RWD Cherokee | Page 6 | Allpar Forums
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Rendered: Theoretical Next-Generation RWD Cherokee

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Ryan, Aug 27, 2020.

  1. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,779
    Likes:
    2,146
    I mean that's his job ever since he became head of global design. Instead of overlooking one brand (which would be easier to help design), he has to have an overall outreach and push people into certain directions
     
    Tony K likes this.
  2. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,313
    Likes:
    4,676
    An episode of the Netflix documentary Abstract: the Art of Design shows exactly how Ralph works, if anyone's interested in finding out.

    He's a very hands-on manager, and while he does delegate to the design teams he has input and final veto on their work.

    As for a lack of talent at FCA, no, far from it. They are still one of the best-regarded internal design studios (and not just the Turin side) but you design to a brief, and the brief for Grand Wagoneer would have been very clear about how tolerant the typical buyer is of in-your-face styling.
     
    Tony K, rmtodd, tlc and 5 others like this.
  3. Archknight

    Archknight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Messages:
    311
    Likes:
    257
    I have been wondering if they would use a version of the Stelvio platform, since everything is already there set up except Jeep's 4x4 system. The Grand Cherokee is getting a LWB version and returning the Cherokee to RWD would make sense, considering it's already straddling the compact and midsize segments. The larger platform would allow for additional cargo room. Also, seeing this sketch from the Grand Wagoneer presentation, it translated to Cherokee for me:
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Ryan

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Messages:
    6,893
    Likes:
    12,342
    I see a lot of Range Rover in that rear end. In a good way.
     
  5. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,313
    Likes:
    4,676
    Pricing works against using Giorgio Global. (The Stelvio platform has become GG)

    What you’d end up with would cost pretty much what a WL will cost: space between the axles costs almost nothing to make.
     
  6. Archknight

    Archknight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Messages:
    311
    Likes:
    257
    Actually, they would would recoup the investment placed into that platform by spreading it across multiple brands. Alfa and Maserati are both low volume and even with high margins it will take the better part of a decade to even come close to breaking even with that investment. Jeep on the other hand is a cash cow, so allowing the Cherokee to switch and lose a few lower trims wouldn't hurt. The Cherokee could start with just 3 trims (Limited, Trailhawk, and Overland), which could be priced starting around $28-$29K. We already know the new Grand Cherokee is going to get a starting price close to or above $40K, so Jeep has the room to move. The FWD based models will pick up the lower end of the spectrum, as there is still the mysterious Low D segment model that hasn't been announced yet.
     
    UN4GTBL likes this.
  7. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    36,662
    Likes:
    19,401
    This "sharing" the platform line (development costs) discussion has been going on now for what 5 years?
     
    jclick likes this.
  8. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,313
    Likes:
    4,676
    WK2 Grand Cherokee opens at $33,000. I think $35,000 is a better prediction of the entry price for a WL74 than $40,000; the 3-row WL75 will be closer to $40k, but it will still be under, I expect. WL75 is expected to be the first of the pair to launch, so that could be where the confusion is coming from.

    A $29,000 MSRP and rear-wheel drive and a Jeep buyer’s expectation of off-road ability is not realistic: that kind of price point is only reachable with a front-wheel drive architecture for a new model introduction.

    KM will most likely be on the same architecture as Alfa Romeo Tonale, an evolution of the Small Wide architecture already used by the Renegade and Compass; all of its competitors are front-drive, and going RWD would not differentiate it enough. People really don't care about this kind of detail. BMW failed to use RWD as a differentiator when it entered the European hatchback market (despite an enormous campaign pushing the RWD aspect, in a customer survey a year later, 80% of customers thought their 1-Series was a front-wheel drive car, like a Golf)
     
    Zagnut27 and UN4GTBL like this.
  9. UN4GTBL

    UN4GTBL Allpar Legacy

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8,744
    Likes:
    3,858
    Me too, but in a bad way, totally removes the utility aspect of "SUV" with the sloped rear design
     
  10. XRT2SRT

    XRT2SRT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,024
    Likes:
    440
    I wonder what this would look like with a set of 4x6 LED cladded projector beam headlights...;)
     
  11. XRT2SRT

    XRT2SRT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,024
    Likes:
    440
    The terms hen-pecked/neutered come to mind as of late when giving Ralph's influences time under the scope...
     
    UN4GTBL likes this.
  12. JeepandRams

    JeepandRams Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2016
    Messages:
    144
    Likes:
    235
    This market segment is America’s most important in terms of volume and one of the biggest in the world so I think as clean a sheet of paper as possible is called for. A new name is even called for. This model will show what Tavares is really about.
     
  13. cygnus

    cygnus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2014
    Messages:
    911
    Likes:
    966
    Jeeps need to look like Jeeps. What's going on with Wagoneer and WL74/75 is not encouraging. My gripe can be summarized with a single point of design - the D pillar, which defines the roof line. This can't be fixed with an MCA. You want an all glass roof? Fine, let's build out some new engineering here that involves getting the look of the D-pillar right. I'm very curious how big the rear window of WL74 & WL75 is compared to WK2. The long front overhang is...well's it's Giorgio Global - what can you do?

    There is an evolutionary path here beyond looking like a Land/Range Rover. This is where I significantly worry about European power and influence at FCA. They understand this from a dollar and cents standpoint in terms of how the money comes in, they think its cute we have Jeep outreach via Jamboree, but they don't understand the base pairings and sequence for how the DNA comes together to make the protein.

    Ralph needs to clean things up, the buck stops with him. The IG posting and self congratulatory stuff on all the details for Wagoneer is worrying. I understand he needs to pump up and support his team, but they need to also get things like A/B/C/D pillars and roof lines right. It's also on Manley and the board too. They approve every design.

    There's a new generation coming up, and the initial results are concerning. We can do better.
     
    #113 cygnus, Sep 15, 2020 at 5:24 PM
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020 at 5:39 PM
    UN4GTBL and jkdrew like this.
  14. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,779
    Likes:
    2,146
    The only jeep that needs to look like a jeep is the wrangler. Other then that as long as jeep doesn't start making cars jeep is fine. The wagoneer can have a better design, but it is a safe design
     
    tlc, Ryan, KrisW and 2 others like this.
  15. cygnus

    cygnus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2014
    Messages:
    911
    Likes:
    966
    You won't have to wait long to see who is right. Remember, Sergio sent the initial JL design back. He understood this. Not sure if or what level of involvement he had with WL74/WL75/WS.
     
    #115 cygnus, Sep 15, 2020 at 9:47 PM
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020 at 9:56 PM
    UN4GTBL likes this.
  16. cygnus

    cygnus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2014
    Messages:
    911
    Likes:
    966
    Count how many comments on Instagram for the unveiling where people are saying it doesn't look like a Jeep. Product Planning would respond - it doesn't need to, we aren't selling to that demographic. Yeah? Good luck with that, the truth is often bitter.
     
    UN4GTBL and page2171 like this.
  17. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,779
    Likes:
    2,146
    Alright while I'm counting those you count all the one of praising the design and bring it back. There is nothing bitter about it, i trust a company vs a couple people on the internet to do their research. It is not targeted towards me along with anything else jeep related but if i had to get a jeep it would be the Grand Cherokee or that. They are targeting people that don't normally look at/buy jeeps. If you design and build everything around being a "jeep" you run into way more issues like what has happened with the cherokee and having some major cargo issues. They want the jeep name with better looks and drivability (grand cherokee vs wrangler)
     
    danbek and Tony K like this.
  18. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    855
    Likes:
    1,210
    Sure, and how many of those people were lining up to buy a Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer?
     
    tlc likes this.
  19. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2015
    Messages:
    5,482
    Likes:
    10,754
    Define "looks like a Jeep". Other than the 7-slot grill and trapezoidal wheel openings, what is the commonality throughout the entire Jeep lineup? (Besides trips to the dealer for repairs, that is? :p I jest, I jest).

    I don't think that's an issue, nor should it be.

    Capability is a defining factor. All Jeeps have a capable model with the other variants being slightly less-so. Will Wagoneer be any different? I imagine not. Looking at the high-end Grand Wagoneer with all of it's luxury touches, in concept form...it's hard to get a feel for capability for the entire Wagoneer lineup. It looks like it will have a lot of cargo room, so that's definitely in it's favor. As I've said before, to judge Wagoneer's off-road ability by the ultra-lux version, is like judging Grand Cherokee's capability by the Trackhawk version. Doesn't really make sense. Especially since we don't yet know what the rest of the Wagoneers will look like or offer in features/capability.

    Let's see what they come up with before pronouncing verdict on Wagoneer. There's a lot to still be revealed, I imagine. I am trying to keep an open mind.
     
    danbek, tabutler, tlc and 2 others like this.
  20. savio.79

    savio.79 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    54
    Likes:
    139
    I didn’t know that the Giorgio (Global) platform has front overhang issues.
    Could I have more details?
     
    pumadog and ScramFan like this.

Share This Page

Loading...
 We are not affiliated with FCA. We make no claims regarding validity or accuracy of information or advice. Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.