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Sales and new incentives and FINALLY Digital buying

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by Dave Z, Apr 1, 2020.

  1. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    If that was true, why do a new 500L generation and make turbos standard on 500? I don't think they've given up. Maybe they're waiting for gas prices to go up... or for Peugeot to decide.
     
  2. turbonetic

    turbonetic Active Member

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    The fiat 500 has been canceled in north america and the 500L is one of the worst selling cars on the market today.
     
  3. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    So? They didn't give up in 2016, is what I'm saying. They are still importing 500Ls (Heaven knows why).
     
  4. turbonetic

    turbonetic Active Member

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    16 was when the marketing all came to a stop and its been downhill ever since. Why they'd keep selling the 500L but cancel the 500 is probably due to production or union politics. My guess is they have something else for Mexico but not for Serbia or the 500L actually sells somewhere else. Either way the brand is running on fumes and if they did pull the plug there would be dealers lined up around the block looking for compensation for the fiat studios they had to build for a now cancelled brand. Its cheaper for FCA to just strangle it as they've done and doing.
     
  5. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    They still did marketing after 2016. They had launches for journalists, they featured the cars, they had TV commercials. Maybe they dropped advertising in your area but they didn't stop entirely.
     
  6. turbonetic

    turbonetic Active Member

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    We can agree to disagree on this one. You think Fiat is healthy and vibrant. I think its DOA and they've done everything but kill it due to dealers wanting paybacks. The 124 is supposedly dead soon too. So now they have what, the 500L and 500X?
     
  7. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    You're putting words into my mouth.

    I think Fiat is dead man walking. I think they kept trying until sometime in 2018-2020, and then gave up. You said 2016.

    We both agree they gave up.
     
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  8. turbonetic

    turbonetic Active Member

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    You're not wrong about 2018 but I read an article last year that did a pretty deep dive on it and it all led back to 2016. The 124 was out and not selling as with everything else they made. All their cards were then on the table and it was a bunk hand, around then was when their presence started being reeled in to the bare minimum that we see now. By the time we see that they've given up, they gave up much earlier internally.
     
  9. aldo90731

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    Personally, I’m glad Fiat brought 124 Spider.

    But if they believed that a roadster would turn around the brand, they were incredibly “...naive or stupid,” to borrow the now-famous words of the ex-acting-under-secretary of the Navy.
     
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  10. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    2016 was the year the requirement for separate studios for Fiat was relaxed. Apparently it did keep some dealers from dropping Fiat and probably added a few new dealers.
    And yet 2016 was the first year of the 20%+ sales declines in the US.
     
  11. finc.jb

    finc.jb Active Member

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    Have a quick question on a new 2020 Ram 1500 for sale in Canada. It's "monroney" sticker has a price of $71,985 CDN and is listed at $52,785 CDN. With everything going on, do any of the sales people on here, think they would go to $50,000??

    Please don't bash me for looking to get the best deal I can.
     
  12. unverferth

    unverferth Well-Known Member

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    This may be a little off topic. I think is Fiat is also an albatross for Chrysler too. I read numerous tests and reviews of Chrysler vehicles. Some good and some bad. However; the underlying theme in all the public comments is, "What do you expect. They are Fiats". Or "Why would you want to buy a Fiat ?". And of course, "Fix It Again Tony". It's a stigma Chrysler can't shake.
     
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  13. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    I think that's one major reason Alfa Romeo wasn't a hit when they came back: the original cars were unmitigated quality disasters even by 1976 Volare standards. Not helped by the fact that one of the most popular ones had its nameplates on an angle on the back, so it looked like they even the nameplates were put on incorrectly...

    The owners used to brag about their 50/50 weight ratios. I'd always offer to race against whatever 1970s car I had at the time, on any track. "Sorry, it's at the shop." "Sorry, waiting for parts."
     
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  14. aldo90731

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    Indeed. Yet this wasn’t inevitable. When Fiat returned it had the opportunity to change consumer perceptions. To do that it had to communicate “quality” like a broken record. Instead, it chose to focus on “style” and “fun to drive.” Unfortunately, style and fun are non-starters without quality.

    Like I said before, FCA receives this type of information so it cannot claim ignorance. IMO, it was their arrogance to pretend that Fiat had no quality perception problem that got in the way.
     
  15. aldo90731

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    I see many owners on the Spider forums lament that Fiat USA is run by Chrysler. They are convinced that Fiat quality, innovation and know-how is superior to Chrysler’s, and many of Fiat’s issues here stem from Chrysler having its head up its *ss.

    As far as opinions go, theirs is the valid as anyone else’s. That is not the issue. The issue is that the number of people in North America who believe that Fiat quality is superior to Chrysler’s —or anyone else’s for that matter— is minuscule. And there lays the tragedy of Fiat in North America.

    Had Fiat spent the last eight years convincing more consumers that their quality is as good or better than anyone else’s, we wouldn’t be counting down the to day FCA finally pulls the plug on Fiat.
     
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  16. finc.jb

    finc.jb Active Member

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    Can we go back to my question? lol:D
     
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  17. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    I cannot agree with you enough.

    Fiat people were in charge of Chrysler when they came over here. If they really cared about quality, they would have tested the bejeezus out of any changes made by Auburn Hills and then fixed what was wrong. They obviously did not.

    Bob Sheaves’ argument at the time was that making the experienced ex-Chrysler people ineligible for jobs in engineering, while hiring thousands of kids fresh out of college, made quality gaffes absolutely inevitable. I cannot find any fault with his reasoning. He predicted that it would take two product cycles for them to learn enough to avoid the mistakes of Chrysler Past.
     
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  18. aldo90731

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    I believe Fiat came over with a warped sense of quality.

    What passes for quality in Europe seems mystifying to us here in North America. From our perspective, even German automakers have lost the ability to produce reliable, durable, bullet-prof cars. Which is why the only way they can sell 300,000 units these days is through heavy use of leasing. The rest of the European sales amount to little more than a bunch of quirky curiosities.

    FCA invited my employer to visit the Warren Ram truck plant in 2013. The tour guide went on and on about their WCM (World Class Manufacturing) imported from Italy. Now, if you have ever been through an ISO-type certification program, you know that the certification itself does not guarantee better results. All it does is provide a standardized, predictable set of mechanisms that should facilitate attaining results of higher quality.

    Looking in from the outside, it seemed to me like Fiat had imposed WCM on Chrysler’s pre-existing processes with the condescension of a military victor over a vanquished rival, in the self-important belief that its program is better simply because it is now the boss and, that somehow should guarantee better results.

    I honestly believe that Fiat and Chrysler have learned over the years to appreciate and leverage each other’s strengths. But I doubt that to mean anyone in Auburn Hills dares tell Fiat how to run its business.
     
    #58 aldo90731, Apr 30, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  19. codypet

    codypet Well-Known Member

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    Relevant.
    How To Become An Automotive Engineer At A Major Car Company (at https://jalopnik.com/how-to-become-an-automotive-engineer-at-a-major-car-com-1842971662 )

    Odd because in that timeline, I really wanted to get a job at Chrysler. I was out of work at the time looking for any engineering job and it would be a year before I found one.
     
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  20. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Agreed.

    I was active in quality circles for a while, years back; I was part of the old AQP, presented at a couple of conferences, and sat as a judge for a quality award. But I was struck by their impression of ISO 9000. Like WCM, and as you said, it's a set of processes. The joke then was that ISO 9000 generated lots of paper but didn't really do anything else; you measured quality stuff, you documented like mad, but did you really change anything? ISO 9000 didn't really require it.

    I don't recall much about Six Sigma, mostly because I was so impressed by the way people stuck to it even though the company that made it famous died.

    What quality has always needed more than any particular process is top leaders wanting it, and being willing to pay for it in the short run so they could save money in the long run. High quality nearly always pays off. It can't be all you do, or you end up like Humber and Hillman and Hudson and Packard (and Motorola, home of Six Sigma) and so many others, but it usually pays off in lower customer acquisition costs, lower warranty costs, and lower production costs (scrap avoidance). (But too much quality can kill you if customers never replace your product, e.g. old Farberware!)

    Apple seems to have figured out how to deal with overly high quality: constant software updates to leave functional old stuff behind. (But Android makers tend to support their wares for even less time than IOS. Linux and Windows PCs get longer-term support.)
     
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