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Sales roundup: Mopar vs Ford and GM

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Dave Z, Oct 5, 2020.

  1. wvutuba

    wvutuba Well-Known Member

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    The 2-3 year old Fiat/Alfa dealer near me became the used car lot for the franchise owner when their other used car building next door got destroyed in a freak storm. They didn't seem to have any hesitation making the change...
     
  2. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    But they must have missed out on selling at least a dozen cars this year!
     
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  3. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    @Dave Z

    Still waiting on your response to my post.
     
  4. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    What post?
     
  5. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Alfa Romeo is a rounding error in US sales at this point.
     
  6. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much for your effort.

    FYI the best selling car in Giulia's class has outsold it slightly less than 4:1 in Q3 2020 while number of dealerships is around 2.5:1. I'm talking about well established player. How about that?

    Alfa in the first place needs more models. And for all players in this segment, in premium segment, it's all about margins and not about huge volumes. Of course they must rise volume a bit but we are not talking about some crazy numbers. After all Giulia and Stelvio production line is not set up for very large volume, even combined we are barely talking about 6 digits per year globally.

    Still I don't see the reason to skip good news about Alfa in your articles. And what's happening with Alfa is clearly a very good sign.
     
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  7. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

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    Not true, you must have skipped over Bmw which is closer to 5:1, they have outsold the Merc which is currently outselling the alfa 4:1. Bmw 3 series has sold 18.326, Merc-class is 13.382, although not a direct competitor it is considered the same size class the audi a5 10.311, audi a4 8.364, volvo 60 6.738 bmw 4 series 3.957, alfa 3.451
     
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  8. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    It's about Q3 2020 when BMW sold about 8k units of 3 Series.
    Giulia was around 2k during the same period.

    The whole story is about MY20 and MY21 Alfas which have new infotainment and Level 2 ADAS.
     
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  9. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Still not really significant. Can a dealer get by on the sales they're making? Yes, BMW has more cars. That's part of it.

    At the moment, it seems that if Alfa Romeo, Fiat, and, to a degree, Chrysler fell off the face of the Earth, FCA US would not be much affected.
     
  10. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

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    One decent quarter doesn't mean you can throw the rest of the year out the window. Those new things are nice but If i had to guess it's not a huge selling point as they didn't make a huge dent is more sales
     
  11. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    Alfa is holding its own, and making small gains, in very difficult market conditions against long-established players who -and this is important- who have not slipped up to let Alfa make those gains.

    Giulia might only sell 25% of the 3-series, but its model mix makes for some angry reading in BMW headquarters.

    If all you care about is numbers, then hey, Nissan. Lots of numbers. Doing great, I’m sure.
     
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  12. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Sure. You're comparing to the BMW 3-series, which is having serious problems staying alive. What about the BMW X3?

    BMW 3 series had 10,394 sales in Q3, 28,720 YTD. It's way down from last year.
    BMW X3 had 16,326 sales in Q3, 36,400 YTD. It's also way down.

    Alfa Romeo had 2,192 Giulia sales in Q3, 5,643 YTD. It's down by 11.5%, YTD. (Not holding its own and not making gains.)
    Alfa Romeo Stelvia had 2,843 sales in Q3, 6,568 YTD. It's down by 1.3%, YTD. (Not holding its own and not making gains.)

    Sure, the numbers were up by 8% and 27% in Q3. BMW is not outselling it four to one, though. It's 4.7 to one for one car, 5.7:1 for the crossover.

    BMW dealers can sell something like 16 different models as well as five Minis (even if the Minis are doing poorly right now). I am not seeing a huge success story here. I'm seeing that low sales numbers tend to jump around a lot. So the Giulia and Stelvio are up for the quarter... does it mean anything? We'll find out in three months.

    Maybe Alfa Romeo is really taking off. Maybe they're going to be viable. This data only says so if I want to assume that there have been no fleet specials, no cut-rate deals, no unusual incentives (and yes, I know BMW has massive rebates at all times), etc.

    BTW, Mercedes C-Class did 7,215 Q3 and 10,836 YTD. Not doing well against BMW 3. Mercedes GLC had 11,428 and 18,710. If BMW didn't have their vans and E-sized cars and crossovers, they might be worried about Mercedes.

    Not going to compare the Audis. I can't remember which is which. Is the Giulia like the A3, A4, or A5? is the Stelvio like the Q3 or Q5? I haven't been paying much attention to Audi. Alfa seems to be doing OK by Audi standards, unless they're competing agianst hte A4 and Q5.

    We're not talking about Rolls-Royce here, either. Alfa Romeo is already discounted in the list price, for what you get. All those lightweight performance parts don't come cheap. Not being critical here, they did what they had to do - had a very high materials and parts budget. That's good for the brand.

    I also have to point out that the ground is littered with semi-failed luxury brands, such as Infinity, Cadillac, and Acura, which sometimes are incredibly successful and most of the time seem like vanity projects.

    Porsche can get away with sales of 10,000 a year. Maserati can be ecstatic with sales of 3,000 (actually it was 1,500 for the quarter, presumably an estimate, and around 5,500 YTD). Alfa Romeo, I would bet, has a much lower profit margin than Porsche, Audi, or Maserati, as it tries to sneak into the ranks of “safe bet” semi-lux cars.

    Now, you may ask why I don't cover Alfa and Fiat in greater depth, and the answer is in the advice I gave to another writer: “If you want people to ignore your story, put NHRA in the title. If you want people to really ignore your story, put Fiat or Alfa Romeo in the title.” Yeah, there are audiences for such stories - but we don't have big ones for them at Allpar. Not even if a Mopar wins the NHRA championships!
     
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  13. jorisr

    jorisr Well-Known Member

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    I guess the negative stories that star Fiat or Alfa do have a big audience at Allpar.
     
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  14. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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  15. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

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    It's a shame that you don't highlight the positive news about one of the brands.
    Alfa does not do the heavy rebates that the german brands usually do. The product mix is much more upscale and Alfa really made a dent in the percentage of sales of the top spec version - the Giulia Q versus the M3. That's the money maker for BMW and Alfa hit them hard.
    They are also shooting themselves in the foot with the new fat and pig-faced M3.

    But apparently Alfa is doing well. It's a pity that a certain someone diverted resources and investment from it. Where are the new models that were promised at the time of the Giulia and Stelvio launch? Hell, where's the MHEV versions?
    Do you expect Alfa to compete with BMW sales without heavy rebates and only with two models? To me this shows that if they actually bet on Alfa they might easily get something selling at the level of Audi and Acura at least. And with price premiums, as opposed to Chryslers that need rebates to move.
     
  16. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    @Dave Z The Giulia may be better value than a BMW 3. Of course, the obvious follow-on is your question: could this be discounting? There are two strong indicators against this: first, margins are higher with Alfa. And second, the head of AR in the US said a couple of weeks ago that AR will show better residuals than its competitors (its competitors include Lexus, by the way) for the 2021 models. You cannot get good residuals by throwing money on the hood to shift product.

    The complaint wasn't that you omitted Alfa's good performance from the headline - I understand the needs of running a news site and knowing your audience. The complaint was that it was glossed over entirely in the article. Plenty of bad news about the Italian brands gets in to those roundups, so why not the good?
     
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  17. Deckard_Cain

    Deckard_Cain Active Member

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    Exactly KrisW. With all the bashing against Alfa around here, I thought people would be happy to see that they're starting to pulling their weight.

    And there's an opening for Alfa now. The new Lexus IS is a miss. The Jaguar XE has left the market. The new M3 and M4 are a tremendous fiasco (overweight and horrendous).
    And if Alfa launches MHEV and PHEV versions they could even access the 7500$ rebate (I really don't know why FCA is letting that oportunity slip by).
     
  18. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Awe, after getting special attention, lots of resources and then having poor sales, it’s sad that everyone isn’t rejoicing over one quarter of improvement in Alfa sales. I’m sorry.
     
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  19. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the usual ray of sunshine.
     

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