Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Dave Z, Oct 5, 2020.
What are you expecting, a parade?
It's all about perspective. 2020 looks good simply because 2019 was a down year for Alfa in the US.
2020 sales Q3: 5056
2019 sales Q3: 4310
2018 sales Q3: 5895
2020 sales YTD: 12493
2019 sales YTD: 13347
2018 sales TYD: 18160
@valiant67 - it is true that 2019 was low, and 2020 is up relative to that, but that ignores the effect that Covid19 has had on 2020 sales across the industry. Compare the competition’s 2018 Q3 to 2020 Q3 and see who’s weathering the storm better.
No. Just an acknowledgement that occasionally—just occasionally—it doesn’t rain.
One good quarter is not breaking news, and don't blame ME for what Allpar readers care about. When Alfa restarted, I posted numerous enthusiastic stories about it. My short reviews of the Giulia and Stelvio were both positive, though honestly the Maseratis were more to my personal taste (which is odd because I really do like small cars). But Alfa Romeo did not catch on in the US. Sales are down vs 2018. Sales year to date are down.
You claim Alfa Romeo has higher margins than BMW. I'd love to know your source. Maybe it's the size of the rebates, but BMW charges far more for the equivalent models; do the rebates equalize things? It's hard to believe that the Alfa, made in smaller numbers and sharing less with other models than the BMW, sold at a lower cost, somehow has a higher margin.
The residuals are higher - yay! That's good. But that's not the whole story. Not everyone leases, and residuals are treacherous. There was a point when minivan residuals were really high, and suddenly they collapsed. It happens...
I disagree. I think that @KrisW , @Deckard_Cain and @romalerig all agree with me.
The whole start of story, or Allpa's view on it, about Giorgio project was wrong. I may add that it was factually wrong.
I can't help myself and I must say that it was pretty much evident that every development which was started and done in Europe way by Allpar described as stolen American project. Whole this policy has led to even greater divide on "us and them" (whoever is us and them). Some would think that Italians are filthy mafiosi who are trying to enslave Americans. Maybe I choose harsh words but some may think so.
So yes, whole official Allpar narrative didn't help with divide.
This whole segment in US is about lease. People are rarely buying cars from premium and especially luxury carmakers in US.
And if you look at BMW sales. Now I must apologize to you because of 4:1 sales comment. I was looking for sales data at Good Car Bad Car which has data different from official BMW.
So if you look at BMW sales you would see that they sell huge amount of certified second hand cars. Obviously vast majority of BMW sales are actually leases.
Except it's 2020, COVID economy and all that. Normally, the point you share with many is an easy argument. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...and stop selling Alfa short unless and until they put their own nails in the coffin.[/QUOTE]
Well, I am an Allpar reader as well as a frequent forum user. Someone that whitelisted the website in my adblocker to contribute to it because I appreciate the community here and the news about FCA.
If you write an article about Q3 takeaways is it too much to expect that you mention all the FCA brands? I am not attacking you personally, nor am I expecting nothing beyond what was done previously: a paragraph about each brand of FCA in the US market. You left out Alfa, when it was a positive Q3 takeaway.Just as you left out Maserati (which I bet it wasn't a positive Q3 takeaway).
You could've made a short paragraph with the following: "Even though Alfa sales recovered in Q3, they were still not enough to cover the lost sales in the rest of 2020 compared to 2019. Lets see how its sales evolve during the remainder of the year although I do not expect higher sales than in 2019.".
This would keep in accordance with the solid reporting that you guys usually do about FCA brands in the US in the main page. I don't need you, nor do I want you to fawn over Maserati (which you also didn't mention), Alfa or Fiat just because they're FCA brands.
I don't think I am asking for much when I ask you to stop pretending they don't exist in the american market when the article in question is about US market takeaways for Q3.
We can keep the fun forum drama and personal opinions in the forum afterwards.
Valiant67, the issue to me is not that "everyone isn't rejoicing". It's that we have an article in the main page of Allpar about Q3 takeaways and there wasn't even one paragraph about Alfa and Maserati as had been done before in the articles about sales reports. That's it.
I assumed it had been covered in the first sales article. In any case, why should I mention it? It's not significant at those sales levels. Same reason I stopped covering Mexican sales. End of year numbers are significant, but anything under that just bounces around madly from month to month.
FWIW, here's an addendum from Europe:
Europe as a whole is about even for the month, down 29.5% for the year.
Fiat is up by 10% for the month, down 32.5% for the year.
Jeep is way up for the month (25%), down 36% for the year.
Lancia is up 12% for the month, down 36% for the year.
Alfa is down 1.3% for the month, down 41% for the year.
I don't know how seriously you expect me to take Alfa Romeo with 4,090 sales in September for the EU+EFTA+UK. Porsche had 5,576 sales and it was down 19%. DS had 3,469 which is pretty sad as well, down 13%; 30,494 for the year (down 15% and more than enough to beat Alfa's 24,493, down 41% for the year).
BMW had 68,634 sales for the month, down 9%; 478,693 for the year, down 22%.
Mercedes had 85,273 for the month.
Lexus had 6,507 for the month, 34,580 for the year.
Jeep was 14,788 for the month, 84,750 for the year.
Lancia, Heaven help us, had 4,689 for the month, 29,421 for the year.
Jaguar, 5995 and 32,788. Jaguar.
Side note: most of the gains for the month went to VW, +14%. Renault up 8%. Toyota up 9%,. FCA up 12% with Fiat, Jeep, Lancia all up. Nissan up 7%. Honda, a bit player, up 4%.
PSA, Europe's #2, was down 14%. Hyundai about even. BMW down 12%, Daimler down 8%, Ford down 4.5%, Volvo down 3%, JLR down 22.5%, Mazda down 23%, Mitsu down 25%.
YTD: #1 = VW by far, #2 PSA, #3 Renault, #4 Hyundai!, #5 BMW, #6 Daimler, #7 Toyota, #8 FCA, #9 Ford, #10 Nissan, and so on. For September, the gap between VW and PSA is immense, 295M to 179M. Then Renautl far behind, 128M. Hyundai 101M, BMW 90M, Daimler 88M, Toyota 80M, FCA 78M, Ford 79M.
Why this defense?
You can write whatever you want to write.
I appreciate the effort.
But you cannot say that you left out Alfa's sales numbers because they are irrelevant as they are so insignificant.
And then you do write a very nice comment on the amazing imploding Fiat sales in the US that add up to not even 20% of Alfa Romeo sales in Q3 in that very same article.
The Alfa news is especially significant due to a few reasons.
1. It looks like Alfa have deleted the shortcomings of customer service and showroom experience in US, that has plagued ALL FCA brands all over the world for decades.
2. And they were able to show a small positive number despite have just 2 models to play with. Those too just with ICE only when electrification seems to be the trend.
Hence the performance is very creditable.