Hello, Allpar Forums member or visitor! If you were a member, you would not see this ad!

Register or log in at the top right of the page...

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Should the Avenger soldiered on like the Caravan?

Discussion in '200, Avenger/Sebring, Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze' started by AmbassadorSST, Oct 10, 2017.

?

Should the Avenger soldiered on like the Caravan?

This poll will close on Jan 18, 2018 at 4:12 AM.
  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    62.5%
  2. No

    6 vote(s)
    37.5%
  1. AmbassadorSST

    AmbassadorSST New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    23
    Likes:
    9
    maxresdefault.jpg
    Looking back, I think from a financial sense it would of been smart to keep the Dodge Avenger around as FCA's mid sized sedan choice. Being the Avenger was an old platform like the Dodge Caravan, it had already paid for itself years ago. It really wouldn't of took much tweaking of the Avenger front clip to give it the current Charger look and adding the rap around racetrack lights to the trunk wouldn't of been that hard or costly to achieve. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Avenger was still selling fairly well when FCA decided to ax it in favor of the rushed to the market the now discontinued 200/Dart?
     
    wolfsblood07 and MPE426HEMI like this.
  2. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    31,486
    Likes:
    10,561
    It was still selling well, but relied heavily on discounts so it was dropped. Never mind the Grand Caravan and Journey followed the same sales strategy.

    Sergio was convinced he could move the 200 upscale and up the profit ladder in one redo. Oops.
     
  3. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,532
    Likes:
    2,991
    As Valiant said, but adding that it was somewhat profit challenged, and its plant space was needed for cars that gen’d more profit.

    If they had factories languishing (they did not) maybe you keep it going and sell it at or near cost, just to stay in the market.
     
  4. ImperialCrown

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
    Messages:
    18,132
    Likes:
    2,607
    The JS Avenger was an older platform (based on the Mitsubishi Galant) and a pretty good value. However, it was taking away from Dart sales.
    It made little sense to have both on the lot because they were so close in targeting the small sedan buyer.
    Adding capacity for new product CUV and SUV seems to be the way to go now.
     
    Bob Lincoln likes this.
  5. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,382
    Likes:
    3,045
    The Avenger was a hidden gem for me. I wish I had to experience it sooner, I would have bought more. But, at the time, I was in a mode of "no more sedans" AKA the start of the CUV craze. But alas, with the kids getting their drivers licenses, it turned out to be a pleasant surprise. I was looking at a new Dart, when they first came out and they had a discounted Avenger R/T next to it for the same price. I bought neither due to my aforementioned mindset, but if I had my time back, I would have bought that R/T. My 2011 has been very reliable and great. Rides nice, drives nice, had ample room, decent entry/exit and the old 4 speed/engine combo is exactly right. I love it. Only think I hate is the black interior. I might just have to look at getting additional one, albeit newly used Lol!. FCA should have kept on updating the models, Ala Journey style, and not wasted the money on Dart. An AWD version would have been awesome! Love that car!
     
  6. wolfsblood07

    wolfsblood07 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2017
    Messages:
    120
    Likes:
    98
    Yes! The Avenger was perfect for someone who wanted a sensible American midsized car with a little bit of aggressive styling. It's not trendy, and it doesn't make any bold statement. It's not an electric or hybrid and it doesn't have automatic engine shut-off at stops. It's not freakishly huge nor is it a golf cart. It's a novel idea! It looks like a car. You turn the key and it starts. It has a trunk, 2 wheel drive, 4 doors, and you actually drive it. It doesn't keep you in your lane or drive for you. I love it!
     
    Citation84 and MPE426HEMI like this.
  7. voiceofstl

    voiceofstl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    829
    Likes:
    256
  8. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2017
    Messages:
    662
    Likes:
    958
    The original poster has it almost spot-on.

    It's actually the previous generation 200 that should have been kept in production (in relatively limited numbers). Don't forget folks......the Dart was more-or-less mandated into existence as a condition of the whole soap opera that brought FIAT into our lives.

    The Avenger....as someone else just said....was too close in price point to the Dart. Having the old 200 around instead would make that less of an issue.

    I think it would have also been a good idea to keep the 200 a V6 only model....but that's just me.;)
     
    wolfsblood07 likes this.
  9. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    5,482
    Likes:
    8,457
    Yes. Dodge should have kept Avenger.

    I wonder if reusing an actual model name would have helped 200. Of course those were the days when FCA was following the misguided path of wanting to name every Chrysler 100, 200, 700... But the fact is 200 meant nothing.
     
    wolfsblood07 likes this.
  10. Tomguy

    Level 2 Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,011
    Likes:
    598
    What factory would you propose would build this incentive, fleet sales king?

    I like the Avenger a lot. It is surprisingly quick and comfortable. But even if they had the ability to magically make it today in a factory that makes other FCA vehicles (maybe alongside the Journey? IDK) - its sales would be based on incentives and fleets. And that's the type of sales FCA is currently not able to justify with its strategy.

    Like it or not, Sergio's strategy for lower volume, higher margin vehicles is actually working. Maybe it's not what some here would do to the company, but it's a lot easier to be a Monday morning quarterback than to actually play the game in real time :)
     
  11. BobbiBigWheels

    BobbiBigWheels I'm likely at work...
    Ad-Free Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Messages:
    2,396
    Likes:
    2,968
    The amount of money that would have needed to be invested into making the Avenger not look like a Dodge Journey in fit and finish would have been a better investment than creating the Dart or remodeling the 200, however, the Hurricane would have been necessary regardless.

    Had the Hurricane been available at that time, the Avenger could have soldiered on as it had the potential to represent the "Performance" side of Dodge well. I am aware it was available with a Pentastar, however, it would not have achieved the necessary economy numbers required to be competitive without a 9 speed/Hurricane combo IMO.
     
    aldo90731 and MPE426HEMI like this.
  12. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,382
    Likes:
    3,045
    Correct. It was a decent car to begin with. An engine/trans update would have suited it well along with an external update. Would have cost a hell of a lot less than Dart/200 fiasco. They haven't replaced the Journey, as of yet, so what was the big deal? What have Dodge got to offer now as a Avenger or even Dart replacement? Nothing.
    I wanted to buy a new Dodge next, but there's nothing to buy and no idea when any thing is coming.
    You'd almost swear they don't know this market or are just getting into it as a new company......again.
     
    Citation84 likes this.
  13. Tomguy

    Level 2 Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,011
    Likes:
    598
    We need to remove the emotion or personal impact from the equation, and look at it from the business perspective:
    Cost/Benefit analysis.

    What is the cost of re-engineering an Avenger to meet/exceed current crash standards? The cost to get it certified by NHTSA etc. The cost to re-tool factories to build it. The cost in production of the car in terms of lost capacity of other vehicles.
    What is the benefit of selling an Avenger? More than just "Checking a box" and having something in a segment. The actual profit margin. The older JS car platform was losing money or maybe even breaking even, after incentives and fleet sales were factored in. Let's say the company was making profit, of X dollars per car. The company makes Y dollars per profit on the car that is now being produced in that old factory. Are sales of JS, times X, greater than sales of new car (Ram DT) times Y? HELL NO.
     
  14. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    31,486
    Likes:
    10,561
    But you have to do a complete analysis.
    How many buyers are lost? Do they buy another FCA product or something from a competitor? If they go away, do they ever come back?
    Say they buy a Ford car instead since there is no Avenger, then they stay with Ford the next time when they shop for a truck.
    It's much more complex than the simple profit margin argument.
     
  15. Tomguy

    Level 2 Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    1,011
    Likes:
    598
    Sure. Ok, conversely, how many sales did the 200 and Avenger cost FCA? How many people bought one, had a fit/finish issue, a 2.7 that sludged, a 3.5 that snapped a timing belt, a 2.4 that sounded like it was chewing on washers, or any other similar issue that caused them to swear off a Chrysler for life?

    If you know (or knew) what you were buying the JS cars were great. But comparing a JS to a Civic - which is what a lot of buyers of those cars did - wasn't a fair comparison, when the Daimler-level penny pinching caused rattles, squeaks, issues like dome lights that come on on their own over bumps, key fobs that shedded buttons, trunk lids that held water and sounded like you would get wet when opening/closing, roof seam rust...
     
    valiant67 likes this.
  16. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    31,486
    Likes:
    10,561
    Absolutely - so much more involved than just profit margin.
     
  17. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    3,382
    Likes:
    3,045
    Yes, because building the 200/Dart was so much better. Even the CEO said they were sh*t and thus sent resale values into the ditch and buyers as well. Burnnnnnnn!!!!
    They had enough problems of their own, enough to equal the past 200/avenger or even eclipse them. They never even had drivetrains that weren’t much better. And all of this in a way shorter amount of time. Don’t think those civic drivers got off Scott-free either. I went to Jeep because Dodge never had another GD thing left to consider other than big Durrango. I wouldn’t touch a Dart by that time. So, whatever sales were lost when 200/Avenger left, they certainly made sure whoever stayed for 200/Dart certainly didn’t stick around after that. Bahaahaa.
     

Share This Page

Loading...
Terms of use and privacy policy. We are not affiliated with FCA. We make no claims regarding validity or accuracy of information or advice. Custom material copyright © 2001-2017 Allpar LLC.