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Sick of Jeep.

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Vet101, Oct 16, 2020 at 12:33 PM.

  1. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

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    I know this might be new news to you but Chrysler hasn't been luxury for decades at this point. The last time you could maybe say they were luxury was mid/ maybe late 90s
     
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  2. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    A Jeep 500X, a.k.a. Renegade, is better offroad than a Compass since shorter wheelbase.
    A mild hybrid Renegade, with rear electric axle, but without the lower ground clereance coul be be better than a Chrokee Trailhawk.
     
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  3. Scottina06

    Scottina06 Active Member

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    Jeep and Ram are the luxury and adventure brands.

    Just look at the buyers of them. America's very affluent. The rich buy jeeps and Rams now.
    Hopefully the next gen alfa suvs and giulia improve. They are outstanding driving vehicles but little.problems plague them. My wifes 19 giulia ti sport is a such a blast to drive and has all the luxury appointments but little problems plagues them. Like we had to have the headlights replaced because something inside them broke and cause the beams to point to the sky. Other than that...its got the best and most responsive steering and handling of any vehicle I've ever driven while getting 30+ mph when u want. We drive in dynamic most of the time so we never see that. It seems alfa is close to replacing Chrysler.
     
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  4. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    There’s Gladiator, too.

    But yes, that’s the concern. There’s evidence already that sales of “pedestrian” Jeeps don’t hold well against competition from Toyota, Honda and Subaru. That’s how it all starts.
     
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  5. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    In theory, but the reality is that Renegade has still not beaten the Rubicon test and the Cherokee Trailhawk has.

    Yup. I'm really not sure it was a good idea to bump Jeep up with ever pricier Grand Cherokees and now Wagoneers, while at the same time lumbering it with Renegades and the Compass. RAV4 and CRV each have what, double/triple/four times the sales of Compass? And Renegade, while outselling all of Fiat (and probably all of Alfa too), doesn't seem to be going anywhere. I liked the Renegade, don't get me wrong, but what's really the market for moderately off-road-capable cars?
     
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  6. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    My brother and SIL “liked” their 2015 Renegade better than their 2019 Compass. The Renegade was more fun to drive and be in; the Compass is larger, quieter, roomier, and has a more mature exterior, but it is a completely unremarkable vehicle. If it had a Chrysler badge no one would notice a difference.

    The problem is the Renegade was in the shop every other week. The Compass is proving a lot better built, but there just isn’t enough there to keep them within the Jeep family.

    Their dream vehicle would be a JL, but a price tag of CDN$65,000, a 12% VAT, gas prices of US$5/gallon, unpredictable quality and a love-hate relationship with their CDJR dealer make JL a non-starter.
     
  7. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    I am always surprised to hear of how poor Renegade reliability is in the USA, when it's considered a very solid car in Europe. Considering that every Renegade in the world is built in the same factory, I wonder are the problems power train related, because that's the only real difference...

    If you're talking just about the Renegade's class, then it's 800,000 units a year in the USA. Of those, Jeep and Range Rover (Evoque is in this group thanks to its pitiful interior space) are the only options for someone wanting "off-road-capable". Kona, Trax/Encore, EcoSport or HR-V are basically cars with no concessions made to off-road use. Renegade is #4 in the segment, at 80,000 units, and sells roughly the same number of units in Europe, all made in Melfi, which makes it a nice earner for FCA.
     
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  8. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    There is a simple solution, just don't sell Renegade in U.S.A.. If one just look at sales, even the Wrangler lineup have very few sales outside North America.
    The main reason is that the "classic" offorad market is contracting vs. 4x4 offroad pickups, second is internal space, third is lack of hard roof version, fourth is the price (ven if, for example in Europe, they starting price of a Rubicon is the same of a Sahara)..
     
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  9. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Subaru has the highest customer retention in the industry, it sells at, or very close to, MSRP, and sales have been growing organically for 12 years without the use of incentives, fleets sales —or fudging the reports.

    Personally, I don’t like their products: they are not attractive, they drive like most other generic vehicle out there, and you tend to get interiors filled with hard plastics and road noise.

    But there is no denying that Subaru has figured out exactly what it is that consumers want, at least in N.A., and is giving it to them through a combination of durability, safety, capability, dealer service, and reinforcing it with unique customer-centered marketing messages.

    If there’s a lesson in Subaru for Jeep, is that the best way to grow your sales organically, is by gradually expanding your brand definition into other areas that matter to mainstream consumers, like quality (however it may be defined), safety, and dealer service. By and large, FCA continues to ignore all of these.
     
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  10. 68RT

    68RT Well-Known Member

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    They do some things very well and introducing product at home first does debug a lot of things before we see it.

    Subaru earnings tumble on quality woes, incentives and sliding sales (at https://www.autonews.com/automakers-suppliers/subaru-earnings-tumble-quality-woes-incentives-and-sliding-sales )
     
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  11. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    I have to agree that Renegade works in Europe and elsewhere. In the US, where people want rough-and-tough, rootin-tootin-cowboy vehicles such as pickups and Wranglers, the Renegade is less successful despite (or because of) being less of a poser than most competitors.

    It's a question that Jeep has struggled with for many years - do they need to have real off-road chops to compete? Under Daimler, maybe before, they decided they only needed the Wrangler to be “real.” Then Mike Manley ordered that the least capable vehicle, the Compass, get at least a Trail Rated version, so it's one model per lineup (except Wrangler)... but all of them, then, must be heavier and tougher.
     
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  12. Chase300

    Chase300 Well-Known Member

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    Your view of GM's history in the 80's is quite skewed.
    GM was having lots of quality issues in the late 70's/early 80's with customers upset with Chevy engines being installed in their Olds and the whole diesel fiasco. Then you had Roger Smith take over and what killed GM and Olds was you couldn't tell the difference between a Chevy, Olds, Pontiac, Buick or Cadillac. They all looked the same!!! That's what killed Olds and Pontiac.
    Not too many Dodges or Chryslers look like Jeeps...nor do Ram pickups look like the Gladiator.
    As far as quality....overall vehicles are so much better today than even just 10 yrs ago I don't think that still is an overall driver...especially with so many people leasing today.
    As long as Jeeps keeps with its upscale image, they will find buyers. Heck, Tesla makes pretty crappy quality cars, much worse than any Jeep, but they still are the only e-vehicles that sell.
     
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  13. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    True about the GM V4/6/8 and diesel problems. But those didn’t appear until the early 1980s. And true also about the lack of brand differentiation. But I’d argue that Renegade, Compass and, to some extent Cherokee, provide neither enough “Jeepness” nor sufficient quality/safety/efficiency to stand out. And that is what sales —and rebates— appear to suggest.

    With regards to quality, it still remains the single biggest differentiator on the market. We see it every single quarter when we crunch the data to derive the drivers of consumer demand.

    It is also true that engines and transmissions have become a lot better, but it is now the electronics that govern all of those components that are the problem. If you end up stranded on the side of the road because the transmission broke or because the electronics that control the transmission croaked, it makes no difference to you. You are stranded either way with no means to get home safely. And that is the crux of the issue.

    When you look at the reliability problems JL and JT are encountering, with the exception of the steering box issue, they are all mostly electronics-related.

    Electronics have long been the Achilles heel of European automakers in North America, and now, thanks to FCA, they are everyday occurrence on Jeeps too. Wonky electronics are resulting in Jeep owners having to have their vehicles towed to the dealer, argue with the service dept., and then having to wait 2-3 weeks to have anything fixed. By contrast, I am hearing from Subaru owners that they are normally greeted by a friendly dealer and are back on the road within 2-3 days.

    Owning a Jeep is starting to sound a LOT to what it was like to own a Fiat 30+ years ago.
     
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  14. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Thing is, Mercedes has no alternative but to expand down market with CLA and GLA if it wants to capture the volume Daimler believes it needs to maintain sufficient mass.

    The beauty is, FCA does not need Jeep to extend down into Renegade territory; it owns half a dozen other brands that can do that. But because Jeep gives them the volume they seek with the least amount of time, money and effort, FCA simply slaps the Jeep badge onto everything it makes, with little regards to long-term consequences.

    Neon and PT Cruiser prove that when the product is right, people will buy it.

    I’d argue that 500X is indeed the right product, but it should have been styled and branded as a Chrysler to sell better on these shores.
     
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  15. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

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    I would argue that pre-FCA Jeeps are not without electronic/electrical issues. Late (2006) Liberty CRDs have a wiring harness issue, and the potential for problems with DCX-era Chrysler electronics is well established. Daimler did us no favors there, whatever influence they held on this side of the pond.
     
  16. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    I never owned a Liberty. But my 2001 Grand Cherokee, 2005-2007 Chrysler 300 SRT, 2012 Dodge Challenger SRT, and six JKs were trouble-free. My 2012 Chrysler 2012 was riddled with electrical problems; so much so that FCA bought it back. My 2013 Rubicon had lots of issues, too; some were electrical, some mechanical. My 2018 JKUR Recon was put together by a drunk assembly team; the interior rattled and squeaked; the body panels and stickers were grossly misaligned. Didn’t keep it long enough to find out if the electrical system was any good.
     
  17. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    I did have a Liberty...a 2003. Electrical issues? Nope, not until it was 18 years old with 170k or so miles. Front suspension issues? Definitely. Air conditioner? Yup. Cylinder issues? Yup. Not much else, though those listed were VERY costly. I must say that it never left me stranded, even the cylinder issues. Sure, it ran rough, but I could’ve limped it home if I had to.

    I still miss it. What? I’m not crying...it’s just my allergies. :(
     
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  18. marlon_jbt

    marlon_jbt Well-Known Member

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    Don't feel bad. I miss my Liberty too. I had 2 KJs and 1 KK. I miss all of them for different reasons.
     
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  19. Chase300

    Chase300 Well-Known Member

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    Does that really happen today? Chrysler has had a limp mode build into their transmissions since 2000 with the production of their electronic 45RFE. If the control senses a problem, it locks into 2nd gear and at least you get home. I'd think the ZF has a similar program, but if not I haven't heard of those stranding customers on the side of the road. Or are you saying this is a Jeep thing???
     
  20. suzq044

    suzq044 Resident Photoshop Nerd

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    [​IMG]
     
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