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"Swoop of a Secret Weapon"

Discussion in 'Historical' started by Beentherebefore, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. dyslexic teddybear

    dyslexic teddybear Active Member

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    I'll go with the Ford "Bluff". Don't think they wanted at all, to make that go 500 miles.

    Trying to remember.....was there any other racing application a cammer would have fit in? Or was it designed from the get go.....for Nascar?

    Agree, Ford played the SOHC card VERY well. It takes a good poker face to push for something that you dam sure don't want. In that regard, the cammer served it's purpose.
     
  2. md80891

    md80891 Active Member

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    DOHC 426, Bluff back.
     
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  3. Beentherebefore

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    Ford provided the SOHC motor to NHRA Top Fuel racers for a year or two. Connie Kalitta had one and so did Prudhomme. IIRC, "Sneaky Pete" Robinson died in a crash of a SOHC Ford powered Top Fueler and the resulting bad publicity caused Ford to stop supporting the program.
     
  4. Beentherebefore

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    Ha, I was just thinking about that!

    I distinctly remember a mid - 60s feature article in HRM (or one of the other performance mags of the time - unfortunately, I didn't keep it) with a cover photo of a DOHC Chrysler 426 Hemi. So there was at least a mockup of such a motor, if not an actual working model.

    The implied threat to Ol' Man France was clear - if he allowed the Ford SOHC to run in NASCAR, Chrysler was willing to go a step further once the door to the OHC route was opened.

    Bluff - counterbluff?............or serious development effort?

    Perhaps Ed can add whatever he might remember about the program.
     
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  5. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Valued Member
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    After Chrysler brought out the Hemi 1964 in Nascar and won big Ford initiated a crash program to do a SOHC 427 for racing. Chrysler decided then to up the ante and do a DOHC Hemi engine (code name A925). They would use the same block but develop cylinder heads using dual overhead cams and 4 valves per cylinder. The camshafts were geared together inside the head but there was a serpentine belt driving a pulley outside of the heads connected to the gears inside the head. Only one engine was built but it was not a runner. It was a long block with head assemblies, intake manifold and a crankshaft, no pistons or rods. The engine was installed in a dyno cell and the engine was driven by an electric dyno so that they could do valve train development. Chrysler really did not want to do an expensive engine program after just developing the Hemi so Ronnie Householder, head of Chrysler racing, had a meeting with NASCAR and showed them a photo of the engine. They said if Fords SOHC 427 is allowed then this DOHC Hemi will be following right behind. NASCAR made a decision and told both Ford and Chrysler that these engines would not be allowed to race on their tracks so that was the end of the program. NASCAR banned the Hemi in 1965 but to appease Ford NASCAR made Chrysler destroke the Hemi to 404" for 1966. Eventually the engine was sold to somebody but I don't remember who. I would attach a picture but the system won't let me do it.
     
  6. Beentherebefore

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    Great stuff, Ed. Thanks.

    So it was really bluff - counterbluff.

    I recall seeing the mockup of the DOHC 426 Hemi on the cover of HRM (or whatever publication it was that was being passed around our college dorm) but most on this board do not go back as far as I do so if you can ever figure out how to get that picture posted, I'm sure that it will be well received here.
     
  7. md80891

    md80891 Active Member

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    they say big bill took one look at it and basically said "no effing way"
     
  8. Beentherebefore

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    The good news was that he told the same thing to Ford regarding their SOHC 427 :lol: .
     
  9. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    Great History Ed!
    If you can email that photo to me, I can get it posted.
    Thanks!
     
  10. PCRMike

    PCRMike Well-Known Member

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    There is a pic of it in a PHR mag from about five years ago. If that helps.
     
  11. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Valued Member
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    Norm,

    I tried sending the picture to you but got the same error 406 message I have been getting all along. I emailed Dave and he said he would try to fix it when he gets back from England.

    Ed
     
  12. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    Hi Ed!
    It just came through OK, thanks!

    [​IMG]
    The image size was a bit small and lower resolution, but much of the text is still readable.

    Those cam gears are seriously scary!
     
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  13. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    Was there even a belt pulley behind the vibration damper, or was the belt just wrapped around the crank for effect?
    I'd think France was so flustered, he didn't look real close at that picture... ;)
     
  14. Beentherebefore

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    I'm glad that you mentioned the 404" Hemi. I had forgotten about it in earlier posts. The 404" was the compromise that Ol' Man France came up with so that he could save face and get a concession from Chrysler for his allowing them back into Nascar with their Hemi B bodies while still appeasing Ford, who figured that their 427s could cover the smaller Hemis.

    In the current issue of "Mopar Action" magazine, their series on the "Ray Nichels Stock Car Connection" just happens to be chronicling the 1966 season. They write that the 404" was the size agreed upon for the Mopar Hemis for the '66 season in the fall of 1965. By Xmas time in 1965, Nichels' shop was matching the HP numbers of the 426 Hemis with the 404s on his dynos plus getting an additional 400 rpms out of them.

    When the '66 Nascar season rolled around, the race results for the 404" Hemi Mopars looked a lot like they had in '64. The article mentions that Ford was completely blindsided by the performance of the smaller Hemis and was livid. I remember that there were rumblings from Ford several times that year that they were considering dropping out of Nascar racing entirely. Ol' Man France's next "compromise" was not so kind to Chrysler. Ford got to run a 2 X 4bbl carb setup on their "high riser" 427s for the '67 and '68 seasons while the Mopars were limited to one 4 bbl.
     
  15. Beentherebefore

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    If you are Ol' Man France looking at this engine package back in 1964, the whole thing is downright scary!

    More than likely he never traced out the path of the belt :lol: .



    P.S. The posted picture is fine Ed and Norm. I can even read the specs when I click to enlarge the image.
     
  16. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    Thanks!
    I tried to play with it, but it was low res, to start with, but it is readable...and pretty cool!
    Thanks Ed!
     
  17. Beentherebefore

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    Here is one of the full page ads that were placed by Chrysler Corp.'s (then) superb marketing staff in major city newspapers after their stunning victory in the '64 Daytona 500. It took me a while to find it but I knew these were out there (had my copy out of the "San Francisco Chronicle" pasted up in a place of honor on my dorm room wall in 1964). The Chrysler ads were supplemented by numerous similar ads by Chrysler's supply partners, some of which I already have posted on this thread.


    daytona1964adScan.jpg
     
  18. Beentherebefore

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    In 1964, the "World 600" was the 2nd biggest race of the year, after the Daytona 500. Jim Paschal's Plymouth victory here was an exclamation mark to the Hemi's stunning victory @ Daytona a few months earlier (only Atlanta Motor Speedway remained elusive as far as Mopars winning on all the major Nascar speedways). This race win was not trumpeted by Chrysler marketing because of the critical injuries suffered by Fireball Roberts during the race and all the media followup.


    [​IMG]

    From "The Sumter Daily Item"

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. DC-93

    DC-93 Active Member

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    I think I have the full size dealer poster from back then... Not sure where it packed away, though... :eek:
     
  20. Beentherebefore

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    Turn those garage rafters upside down :D.

    That's where I found a lot of my old stuff.
     

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