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"Swoop of a Secret Weapon"

Discussion in 'Historical' started by Beentherebefore, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. con383

    con383 Well-Known Member

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    Beentherebefore and fast eddie and co.
    I am in aw of the wealth of knowledge you guys are sharing .
    More please:eek:
     
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  2. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    Pretty cool, isn't it.
     
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  3. con383

    con383 Well-Known Member

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    Its unreal MoparNorm, these guys confirmed all i suspected about Chrysler and her engineering wisdom.
    Absolutely love it:rolleyes:
     
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  4. Beentherebefore

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    Thanks for the vote of confidence, Con383;

    I'm glad that you are enjoying reading what I'm finding to post. More to come. You might cry if you knew all the Chrysler performance stuff from the 60's and 70's that I had originally saved but that I threw out over the years (makes me want to cry now too). I'm recalling an era not just of engineering wisdom, but of on track performance and real performance marketing all tied up in one package (with the additional free attention from the media and Chrysler's suppliers), as it should be when it is done right.
     
    #64 Beentherebefore, Oct 31, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2014
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  5. Jerry Simcik

    Jerry Simcik Well-Known Member

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    I was not aware that the Hemi was limited to 404ci. Makes everything it accomplished that much more impressive.

    Just think what we'd have to day under the hoods of our street cars if Mopar had been allowed to continue to develop technology of it's own design to ensure supremacy over the others?

    I love NASCAR, but I hate how they manipulate things. Sadly, it's seems there are very few pure racing organizations out there that give engineers room to work on what they feel is best.
     
  6. DC-93

    DC-93 Active Member

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    We'd be driving Hellcats! Oh wait, you can actually buy one ! :cool:
     
  7. Jerry Simcik

    Jerry Simcik Well-Known Member

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    Nah, Hellcat's would be old news...
     
  8. Beentherebefore

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    Though Chrysler was reluctant to advertise their 1 - 2 finish in what was then called the "World 600" race (and which was the second most prestigious race on the Nascar schedule after Daytona) due to the widely publicized death of Fireball Roberts, racing partner Goodyear was not beyond capitalizing on the victory.

    Paschal 600 Goodyear ad.jpg
     
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  9. Beentherebefore

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    You would be smiling too if you had just won your first Daytona 500.

    Those innocuous looking '64 Belvederes are among my all time favorites when it comes to race cars.

    Petty with '64 Belvedere.jpg

    (Photo being offered on e-Bay)
     
  10. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    Good, old Plymouth! My Favourite brand.
     
  11. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    IMO they never had a clue about advertising. Especially not enough to bring motorsports victories into it. However, they did have some great print ads. Whoever was doing those knew what they were at. I love the one where you see Petty's stock car on a trailer on the road, and the caption reads,"The only time you will ever get to pass Richard Petty's Plymouth" or something to that effect. Pure advertising bliss IMO.
     
  12. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    I always think of what could have been with that combination. I have a picture of that somewhere.
     
  13. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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  14. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Valued Member
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    I remember the DOHC engine was in Building 136, Dyno cell 38 in Highland Park Michigan. They were doing valve train development on the engine. It was not a running engine as I said before so the dyno was hooked to the engine and would spin it at various rpm's to check valve train operation. Denny Gross was the regular operator but I would fill in for him when he went on vacation or had days off. We would try various valve gear and camshafts to find the best combination. SWEET!
     
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  15. Beentherebefore

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    Me Three!
     
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  16. Beentherebefore

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    Check Ed's & Norm's picture on post #52 of this thread.

    The DOHC Hemi also was featured on the cover of HRM circa 1965. I don't have that one to post but the magazine covers do show up now & then for sale on e-Bay, if you have the time to search. HRM does have an archive on the net but I don't think that it goes back anywhere near as far as the SI archive does.
     
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  17. Beentherebefore

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    Chrysler marketing did a very good job tooting off about their racing victories in the 60's and early 70s - particularly in NHRA. I have posted several of them on the NHRA historical thread. When you consider that the Chrysler ads were supplemented by their race `cars being shown in ads from Champion, Goodyear, and other marketing partners, you couldn't pick up an issue of HRM, Motor Trend, PHR, SCR and other performance publications in those days without seeing winning Mopars in them.
     
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  18. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    Some info to add, if anyone's interested and didn't read this, from the HRM April, 1964 issue:
    "Modern HEMI From Chrysler"
    The first public appearance was at the Daytona Speedweeks.
    Dyno tests show that the new HEMI will take up where to old one left off in 1958, and then some.
    Will be made in three versions, one for oval tracks and two for the dragstrip.
    As they went to press, Plymouth and Dodges smashing lap records at Daytona with fantastic speeds!
    Dick Petty registered 176 plus mph in a plymouth. (Brand C's shook everybody up, the year before, with 166mph runs which now has been shattered.)
    In a pair of 50 mile qualifing races, at Daytona, Paul Goldsmith won a pole position with an average of 170.940 mph in a Plymouth and Petty won the second race and outside position on the front row with an average of 171.919 mph.
    Both were clocked in excess of 174mph at various times during the race.
    Chrysler places a tongue-in-cheek rating of 400HP on the Nascar/USAC version with a single 4 bbl carb
    Rumours from Detroit indicate that it should be closer to 550HP.
    Drag strip versions with dual 4's and short ram intake. 11:1 compression ratio rated at 415HP, 12.5:1 compression ratio rated at 425HP
    Says, probably SAE corrected actual output would be about 560 and 570 respectively.
    The Article mentions that if you have the 413 or 426 inch Chrysler engines now, and think you can just buy HEMI heads and some pistons and upgrade, your out of luck. Blocks are different. (Well, we know that now, but remember, back then this was all new! Must have been exciting to whoever was into this at the time. I can only imagine!)
    Goes on to describe the mechanicals of the new HEMI and then ends with the statement that,
    "We're going to keep a close eye on drag racing results across the nation for any strange fluctuation in the FX class; it might mean the HEMI's have struck!"
     
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  19. Beentherebefore

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    HRM went to press a bit too early to get the Daytona qualifying races correct, though in all fairness, they were more of a mechanical spec magazine than a race performance mag. Neither Petty nor Goldsmith won a Daytona 100 mile qualifying race in '64 - they got their guaranteed front row qualifying spots during time trials.

    Here is a photo from the "Spartanburg Herald" from one of the qualifying races which was won by Bobby Isaac in a Nichel's Dodge after Richard Petty ran out of gas on the last lap.

    Isaac wins '64 Daytona qualifier.jpg

    More on those qualifying races, the horsepower that the Nascar Hemis were putting out, and of course, the '64 Daytona race itself on the link to the "Sports Illustrated" article that I originally started this thread with.......

    http://www.si.com/vault/1964/03/02/608685/swoop-of-a-secret-weapon

    If you are a Mopar fan, this is one of the finest articles that you will ever read about their Nascar accomplishments in a non-motorsports specialized publication.
     
    #79 Beentherebefore, Mar 9, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
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  20. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    Yes, lot's of mechanical spec on the new HEMI in that article.
     

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