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The End is Near ! - for the 200

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by superduckie5000, Jul 26, 2016.

  1. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    And the problem is FCA lost the sedan markets to the "appliance" makers. What it hasn't yet stopped to realize is that the CUV market is already heavily shifted to the appliance makers. While everyone pats themselves on the back as Jeep sales increase, they ignore the huge sales of the appliance RAV4 and RAV4 among others. Higher profit per units will erode as FCA has to discount to offset quality concerns just like in the sedan market. Plus the appliance brands benefit nicely from "captive" customers, something FCA can only dream of without any brand having a full lineup.

    Chasing market trends with no fall back plan is not a good business strategy no matter whose money we are talking abou.
     
  2. Erik Latranyi

    Erik Latranyi Allpar Legacy

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    Yes, chasing market trends and asking your customers to jump brands is not just dumb, it is self defeating.

    FCA has the lowest retention rates among customers. This is due to poor quality, shifting names, no focus and chasing trends.

    This will not change with current, incompetent ownership that cannot decide where they are going tomorrow and what each brand really stands for.

    But they are chasing financial trends as well, whoring themselves and their companies in return for some desperately needed cash.
     
  3. TripleT

    TripleT Allpar Legacy

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    You know what you call a company that does follow the market and instead produces what a small loud minority claiming some sort of moral purity should make? DEAD and Bankrupt

    4decades for teetering on the brink of the abyss, litterly days away from being broke up and two of its original brands killed off....

    But the group that rode in and saved it from that and has finally exploited classes of vehicle that it created.... the same group that finally has it on a solid footing, the same group has thankful abandoned the cash flow model. .......... is Incompentent????

    Because a some Negative Nancys don't agree with maximize margins per unit, something the every viable business does, doesn't mean they don't have brand strategy.

    At some point it just complaining to complianing..... but have fun with that if that is your hobby.... thank GOD your not making decisions for the company. I know too many people that lives are dependent on its health.

    Are crossovers the norm, and cars the oddity?

    The reason CUVs are winning the market is quite simple. For the cost they are more efficient solutions for moving goods and people. The use of vertical space within the tires is simple a better use of materials and comfortable.
     
  4. somber

    somber 370,000 miles

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    There's more to it than this, because the same things apply to the minivan, yet it is shrinking in the market. I think there is a significant "image" factor at play also. I am definitely not claiming some sort of moral purity, but I am not interested at all in CUVs or SUVs. For utility, I want a minivan or pickup. To drive, I want a sedan, preferably one with a manual transmission. If offered a sedan and CUV from same platform, with same drive train, at the same price, I would choose the sedan. The better performance and fuel economy are important to me. The past few years I've seen FCA moving away from what I want. They may be transforming themselves into a very profitable CUV/SUV-only company. I've been a satisfied Dodge customer for decades, but if they become CUV/SUV-only, I'll be buying elsewhere.
     
  5. Harry75

    Harry75 Active Member

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    i had forgotten that description "Negative Nancy's", thank you for reminding me.

    ever since that thread about the museum closing and this "THE END IS NEAR" i have been wondering about this angry, shouting, insulting and depressed part of society, what does one call them?

    well, you gave a brilliant answer to that question.

    i have stopped replying to them, it is hopeless i think.

    never mind what happens to fca, they will always try and do it down.

    keep up the good work, i enjoy reading your stuff and all the other realists on this forum. well done.
     
    AlfaCuda, ScramFan and djsamuel like this.
  6. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Name-calling never helps, nor does assuming the other side has no valid arguments at all.

    Depends on the application.
     
  7. Prabhjot

    Prabhjot Active Member

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    Always preferred: "nattering nabobs of negativity"!

    JEEP is a commodity, it is NOT a Ferrari-like brand of pure blue-blooded aristocratism. It must and will be commoditized: especially in the usa. Which is not to say individual models like the Wranglers will not command at-least some pricing power or "surplus value": so what if incentive warring with say a Rav4 or a Ford Escape are entailed (within limits)? In these so-postmodern times: it is entirely possible to have a 'surplus value' at an 'image' level AND be totally commoditized, banal even, at one-and-the-same-time.

    JEEP outside the usa can, in most places, play for a long while yet at being a more-than-mere-commodity brand/models, if not quite 'aristocratic' like say Range Rover (as yet.) Especially in China, Japan, SE Asia, India, LatAm....
     
    UN4GTBL likes this.
  8. Harry75

    Harry75 Active Member

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    quote - "But they are chasing financial trends as well, whoring themselves and their companies in return for some desperately needed cash." - quote.

    and the above is a valid argument????........hhhmmmmm
     
  9. Powdered Toast Man

    Powdered Toast Man Move along, nothing to see here

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    The CUV is a direct decedent of the body on frame SUV. The reason it was created was marketing. Remember how SUVs became all the rage in the late 90's-00's? Automakers loved them because they were cheap to develop because they used existing body on frame truck architecture. But they gained the reputation as massive polluting gas guzzlers. And when gas prices shot up in 2008 the large SUV became unfashionable. Enter the CUV. It looks like an SUV, except not quite as big, and it gets better fuel economy. It also isn't a minivan for all those people who have a minivan phobia. And since most of them are derived from existing car platforms they're not all that expensive to develop.

    CUV: The vehicle you buy when a car is too small but you refuse to buy a minivan (because a tall station wagon is somehow more hip).
     
    UN4GTBL, somber and valiant67 like this.
  10. Powdered Toast Man

    Powdered Toast Man Move along, nothing to see here

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    And to bring this back around because it's a 200 thread...

    It's been 5 months now and my 200 is still awesome. Haters can go fly a kite because this is a great car.

    Maybe the 200 failed because FCA didn't bother to you know, do marketing. I still see commercials and ads for the Camry and Accord and Malibu. You mean they should keep advertising a model beyond the initial launch push? Who knew? Oh well, we'll get em next time - with that Dodge CUV that's coming (or was it a Chrysler?). Either way I'm sure it'll be a great surprise that we can all hate on two years after it's failed to meet sales expectations.
     
    UN4GTBL, AlfaCuda, wilbur and 2 others like this.
  11. BobbiBigWheels

    BobbiBigWheels The "Front-Line" Perspective

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    Love your point on continuing advertisement. Not everyone is magically in the market at each vehicle's launch. As a casual consumer of FCA product prior to selling the brand, all I knew about the Chrysler 200 is that it was "Imported from Detroit" and Eminem was in a commercial. That's it.
     
  12. jimboy

    jimboy Well-Known Member

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    I've said it before and I'll repeat myself. The 200 is a fine car, it just isn't a 'Chrysler' in it's present form, and I think a lot of Chrysler fans agree with that statement. The minute the incentives dropped, so did the sales. What does that tell you about the vehicles' desirability to Chrysler buyers?

    FCA played it too safe and too generic and as a result we got a MOR vehicle that appeals to only a certain group of buyers that like MOR vehicles. Chrysler has always been about style, engineering, and some 'in your face' attitude, this vehicle lacks all 3, IMO.

    They need to build the 200C concept car. Read Dave's recent post on that vehicle, it is still stunning, still relevant, and still what's needed for Chrysler. I waited 5 years for that car, and what I got was a Hyundai/Fusion clone!!! not even as handsome as a Kia. It's the wrong car for the wrong brand and nothing will change that fact, sorry.
    Like it or not, the LX's forever changed the public perception of Chrysler, and for the better. They need to build on the base they won/earned, and quit throwing out the baby with the bath water!

    A smaller, aggressive, 'baby 300' is what Chrysler customers want, and many are getting tired of waiting for product that never arrives. I'm sitting on a 12 year old car, waiting for something I want to buy from a company that doesn't seem to want my business anymore. WTF is that all about?
     
  13. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    I did not say that. I reiterate - you start name calling when you run out of rational arguments.
     
  14. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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  15. TripleT

    TripleT Allpar Legacy

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    Well if you want move people fast, you go low slung and RWD
     
  16. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Or low slung and FWD in a small car, or low slung and AWD for the best effect...

    Or if you want maximum gas mileage and don’t care about carrying heavy items. You know, a lot of people use a car as personal transport and have a second vehicle that's larger. Salesmen, meter readers, etc don’t need the “vertical space” of a crossover.

    When I used to commute to work 55 miles each way, anything but a sedan or coupe would have been laughable. The extra overhead of a crossover would have been wasted. The ideal cars I had already — a Neon, another car I won’t mention but which got a real 38 mpg. I tried a Spirit R/T for a time and it was a ball but left me stranded too often, and it was all too easy to see myself getting ticketed for 95 mph. “Officer, really, I was just trying for a quick burst to 75 to pass this guy, but the turbo’s either on or off...”

    My relatives would put on 80,000 miles a year for business, just transporting themselves. They chose LH cars and a Lincoln Continental, for comfort and convenience and highway mileage (the latter was VERY comfortable and had a superb stereo, far better than the LH, but ate transmissions). To take an SUV would have been insane for fuel costs. Even today, cars have a good edge over SUVs and crossovers. I think that will drop later.

    I like the feel of the Dart around corners. The better SUVs and crossovers can beat it on the course but still feel a bit top-heavy. The Grand Cherokee SRT8 doesn’t feel anywhere near as confident (the Fiat 500X does but fails me in other ways).

    I think what will happen is that crossovers will get light hybrid setups in that space under the floor, which will boost their economy to meet or beat similar sedans, and that will keep them practical for former sedan buyers. Really, though, I think a lot of the problem today is the disparity in height. When I test drove a friend's Neon recently, I was amazed at how hard it was to see around me. You don't realize it when you get into a Dart but it has a high seating position compared with a Neon. My Valiant has a very “sit up straight” seat but you still feel low...
     
  17. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Do people realize that the 200 is still being produced... at least for now?

    Mike
     
  18. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Yes. Through the first or second week of December. And Darts are still being sold. $17,000 base model. Quite a few around here.
    153 Vehicles within 25 miles
     
    Mike V. likes this.
  19. 04RAMSRT10

    04RAMSRT10 Well-Known Member

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    Through this time with Fiat we have witnessed many questionable decisions. We replace a bad car with the Dart, which was brought to market too early. It was too heavy and had a less refined drive driveline than the competitors. The Civic was the only car that did not under cut it on price. This auto segment is likely to be a real money maker but that how you build your customer base. Then along comes the 200, virtually the same car pushed here and there to make it a little bigger and heavier. The Dart is too big for its segment and the 200 is too small for its segment. The nine speed transmission launch was not the best. When compared to the industry it was not way off but many eyes are on you now a days when anything is launched. Then comes the new Pacifica. Nice vehicle but.......? As with the 200 there is no Dodge version for the economy buyer. In addition that must been the worst launch tv and print ever and it is still going on. The company makes some great cars and trucks. Maybe they just need to decide what they do well and make it the best. Ram and Jeep are doing very well in the market. Chrysler is struggling from lack of product and older vehicle. People love new and exciting cars. A company can do this on the cheap now with the changes in front, rear and interior. Look at a Kia Sorento since 2011. The same basic vehicle that seems to look different every year and has strong sales.
     
  20. Harry75

    Harry75 Active Member

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    a narrow personal viewpoint.

    you can not run an international company based on a narrow personal viewpoint.
     

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