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The full Dodge Challenger Demon thread

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by Dave Z, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    Alright here is the deal about the Demon. I got good information from a really good source, that it was a program error that came up with the 1,023 number. Only 5 people on the program knew about the true target horsepower number. Demon is exactly what it is, that showed in New York. 840 horsepower with race fuel, 808 horsepower on premium fuel, 500 horsepower with black key and 300 horsepower in valet mode. Most of us have been fooled the past few months with this "1,023" information. Sad to say, but it was almost a disappointment watching the Demon reveal that it wasn't 1,023 horsepower.

    The focus now is on the Charger and Challenger SRT HELLCAT widebodys.
     
    jam1, dakota21, GasAxe and 6 others like this.
  2. MoparDanno

    Level III Supporter

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    CGI Blocks offer far superior strength per lb as well.

    Although Aluminum is used on the highest HP per cube motors on the planet ( Top Fuel ) that's a "cost no object and replace them 30 times a year because they broke" type of thing. AKA Race stuff.

    Also, race apps don't need the same longevity as a OEM application. High HP at long duration will require more strength. To make an aluminum block that will last at the Hellcat/Demon levels would probably be a negligible weight savings over CGI honestly.
     
    freshforged, Mike V. and Devildodge like this.
  3. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    About 85% of the Demon motor is specific to the Demon. Even though they are the same displacement they carry different internal codes.
     
  4. Hellcatbroughtmehere

    Hellcatbroughtmehere Active Member

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    Seems like it would be money well spent as they could start to let it trickle down to lessor trims. It would have to shave at least 100lbs off of the front end.
     
  5. Hellcatbroughtmehere

    Hellcatbroughtmehere Active Member

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    Why do any of what they did for 3300 vehicles?
     
  6. Hellcatbroughtmehere

    Hellcatbroughtmehere Active Member

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    At least 100lbs would be shed wouldn't it? Right over the front wheels? Maybe the Demon would wheelie even higher :D
     
  7. Hellcatbroughtmehere

    Hellcatbroughtmehere Active Member

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    I'm not so sure about that. 662 for the last 500 and 650 out of the latest Z and V. I doubt it's the block holding them back.
     
  8. Devildodge

    Devildodge Active Member

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    Thanks, @redriderbob for the clarification on 1023. I was not disappointed cause when it pulled the front wheels, i figured how ever much power that was was enough.

    Thanks, so much to all of the people who kept this thread in line and got to enjoy if you know you know
     
  9. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up... Mopar Danno and I really aren't crazy! lol :p
     
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  10. Muther

    Muther Well-Known Member

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    As Danny said, youd have to make the aluminum block so heavy, that the weight savings would not be worth the engineering cost. You'd have to had too much metal to the block to gain the durability needed for the Demon application.

    I also think, that in 2021ish, when the GenIV Hemi gets here, that they will "bake" chi and aluminum into the design from the beginning, saving engineering costs later down the line.
     
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  11. Countfarussi

    Countfarussi Active Member

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    Sort of strange all the misdirection spent towards 757 and 815 though, as well as the 10.23 time slip.

    I wonder if 757 could show up again, perhaps in the WBHC ?
     
  12. Hellcatbroughtmehere

    Hellcatbroughtmehere Active Member

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    Ford went to Aluminum on the 5.4 from 2011 and it actually saw a bump in power (only 10hp from 540-550) and maybe the 5.8 block weighs more than the aluminum 5.4 for strength purposes on 662hp. However, I'm still not convinced. These same arguments were made before 2011 when ford went AL and nobody has ever looked back at iron. Same for Chevy 20 years and counting on AL. I haven't heard of any block issues, ever, on any of those cars.

    I'd be very interested to see the weight differences between the Ford 5.4Iron 5.4AL 5.8AL vs. the C6 ZR1 6.2AL C7 Z06 6.2AL vs. the 6.4 and both Dodge 6.2 iron blocks. Not sure how to come about such data however.

    It does make sense to wait for another generation of motor though. I see that being the real reason; Cost vs how much longer these motors will be around. Still they went through a lot of cost on both Hellcat and Demon for a chassis that is soon to be replaced...

    Elvis is on Mars, I shot Kennedy and Beanie Babies are collector items.
     
  13. MoparDanno

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    No way 100lbs would be lost in an application like the Demon. 20-25lbs top.

    Yes, aluminum is lighter, but it takes MORE of it for strength. You cant just take a block that's iron, make it in aluminum and call it good. You would have to add 30-50% more mass in the right places to get it strong enough to last. That's why the tradeoff isn't nearly as lopsided as most people think it is.
     
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  14. Hellcatbroughtmehere

    Hellcatbroughtmehere Active Member

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    Ford shed roughly 120lbs on the GT500 from 2010-2011. Maybe the 5.8 (13-14) is heavier than the 5.4AL (11-12) though. EDIT: Ford claims roughly 100lbs weight savings between their 5.4 iron block (07-10 GT500) that made 500hp to their 5.8 AL block that makes 662hp.

    And I'm sure there is a big difference in 840hp and 662hp but people have modified them well past 1000hp and I never remember reading anywhere that the block was the weak link.

    There's obviously good reason for the decision as I still can't believe all they invested in the Demon (especially for such a limited run) but I'm not fully convinced strength is the limiting factor.
     
    #3694 Hellcatbroughtmehere, Apr 21, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  15. Hellcatbroughtmehere

    Hellcatbroughtmehere Active Member

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    Let me also say, before I get piled on, that I'm not diminishing Demon in any way. I think this car along with the 5ACRE Viper are THE most impressive cars I've seen from any OEM in quite a while (at least in my price bracket) if not EVER.

    I'm simply interested. Please don't tell me I "seem to love Ford and GM so much why don't you just buy one". I'm not trying to put the GT500 on a pedestal or any Corvette. Full disclosure: I do LOVE the 13-14 GT500 but I've never owned a Mustang and I've got Zero interest in the latest Z or V(no manual trans anymore means me no likey anymore) although I've owned a C5 Z06 and currently own a regular C5. My favorite new car is the Challenger and my favorite car that I've ever owned is my Viper. I'm as close to non-biased as you can be. Unless it's a smelly foreign car (Austrailian and English cars excluded and I'm a first generation American before you start) EWW gross.
     
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  16. EVOL

    EVOL Active Member

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    Everything is pointing towards marketing. It would have cost them hundreds of millions to get the brand exposure that the Demon brought them.
     
  17. MoparDanno

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    Well, I wont tell you to go buy a Ford, but I will tell you that you cant take what Ford has done with their engine and think that itll transfer directly to the Hemi architecture. Each engine design will have differing needs when the conversion is done. For all we know the Ford architecture was built with an aluminum design in mind in the future, while the Hemi was not.

    Believe me, it matters.
     
  18. MoparDanno

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    They needed a halo appearing vehicle to take away from the sting of the ACR going bye bye IMO. Next year will be the FatCat to distract us with more shiny bits of string, and maybe after that we will start hearing about the upcoming Viper replacement.
     
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  19. Hellcatbroughtmehere

    Hellcatbroughtmehere Active Member

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    Fair point.
     
  20. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    What’s the price difference again?
     

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