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The future of Chrysler

Discussion in 'Rumors and Speculation' started by Dave Z, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic
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    I always thought the Aspen was the better looking of the two and Durango was rather homely. To each their own. But my concern is not in that this won't work. Depending on how they do it, it certainly can work, and I hope it does. I'll never complain about having more product...unless the result is just cannibalizing your own sales.

    I just want them to put forth a well-tested, quality product. And to mount an effective marketing campaign. I do worry somewhat that if all the new products that are being talked about, and actually make it to market, will they have enough dollars and personnel to market each product appropriately. Marketing has not exactly been a strong suit for FCA, and with so many new vehicles coming will each receive the attention that they need/deserve?

    I've been around businesses my whole life...as a worker, to management, to owner/operator. There is a lot that's involved with a successful product launch, and the work is continuous throughout the lifespan of the product. And I tend to analyze things to death...which can take the fun out of new launches for me. My wife and I write children's books now...you'd think that was fun...it is...but I still find a way to be a Debbie Downer at times.
     
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  2. CivoLee

    CivoLee Active Member

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    See, this is the problem I have. Why not 2019 or Q1 of 2020? Neither the industry or the world is static. What happens if something causes the price of gasoline to spike? What if in the next year buyers show signs of tiring from crossovers/SUVs?

    What if the ascendancy of liftbacks in the luxury/premium market becomes the next big thing? At the beginning of the decade, there was only one luxury liftback on the market, the Porsche Panamera. Now, there are 9 (Audi A5/A7, BMW 3/5-series GTs/4-series GC, Buick Regal Sportback, Kia Stinger, and the aforementioned Porsche Panamera). I'm no market analyst, but this sounds like a trend to me. What if it spreads to mainstream cars and revitalizes the sedan market? Does Chrysler have something like this in the pipeline?
     
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  3. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    .

    Setting aside the supplied photos, I'm sensing a Tall Dodge Magnum from the sketches (minus the original Magnum's downward slant of the roof toward the liftgate) -

    Can't tell by these renderings if access would be through a true liftgate, or if it would be clam shell . Y'know ... clam shell with the Ram split tailgate would be new and different.

    .
     
    #643 JavelinAMX, Nov 25, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  4. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    .

    Another way to look at it is that perhaps you're actually singing Bass in a four-part Harmony. A needed component to deliver the overall sound and message.

    Not everyone can - or should - sing Tenor, and deliver the lead vocal duties.

    The sound and message resonate better when all four parts are delivered in time/cadence, with a good stage mix, and at the right volume
    .
     
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  5. T_690

    T_690 Active Member

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    Do you have 2018 Investor Day presentations?
     
  6. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic
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    A very interesting analogy! :)
     
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  7. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    Nothing against the insiders, but I can’t drive around in a hint. Enough future product has been promised and canceled, nothing matters but what is on the showroom floor. New products are already years late. The more people the Chrysler brand loses, the harder and more expensive it is to rebuild the brand.
     
  8. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    Analysts say gas prices will be steady here in the US for the next decade. Also, if something like that were to happen that Fiat portfolio would then supply the US with vehicles like the highly rated Fiat Tipo/Dodge Neon and Fiat Argo which can be easily modified for US sales.

    imageshandler.jpeg

    fiat-argo-argentina-11-1.jpg
     
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  9. Erik Latranyi

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    I do not understand what you mean by that.

    While the KL sold about 20% more volume annually than the pre-bankruptcy Liberty, it was in a CUV market that was 50% larger than the one the Liberty played in.

    If you go by market share of midsize CUVs, the KL was a failure compared to the Liberty. KL was mid-pack while Liberty was contenting for 1st or 2nd in volume.

    None of us are privy to the profit margins on either vehicle, but for the last year, KL has been getting about a 20% incentive thrown onto it and sales are still declining. That does not seem better than the highly incentivized Liberty.

    To say "pushing the design boundaries worked" means it was not a complete failure. I see no real success here.
     
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  10. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    Funny read this article from our own Patrick Rall about 2015 model year sales...

    Cherokee Leads Best Jeep Sales Year Ever | Torque News (at https://www.torquenews.com/106/cherokee-leads-best-jeep-sales-year-ever )
     
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  11. Erik Latranyi

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  12. aldo90731

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    I appreciate very much what insiders have to say, including these photos. I truly do. But there is no need for name calling. No one on here owns the truth, and no one on here can tell the future.

    Where some see hypocrites and haters, others see naive, gullible, blind faith. As much as insiders are tired of showing promising hints about future products, outsiders are tired of pointing out the mounting evidence of weakening sales, of delays, of miscalculations and of mismanagement. Where some see adaptability and flexibility, others see lack of discipline and follow-through. Where some see brilliant opportunity, others see short-term opportunism.

    To me it is an issue of believers vs skeptics. I have been a faithful believer for most of the 30 years that I have owned Chrysler products, but for the past 3 I have seen --and experienced-- sufficient evidence to become a skeptic realist.

    Gorgeous sketches and multiple investor presentations have to counteract the mounting evidence of declining sales, product delays, a brand with only two vehicles, a murky brand positioning, the inherent inefficiencies in running a federation of niche brands, poor quality ratings and customer treatment, ongoing reports of flirtations with potential buyers, and the existential threats of autonomous driving and electrification looming on the horizon.

    Frustrations aside, there is no point in one side hating the other. As in life at large, we need both on here: a dose of faith and a dose of realism.

    Meanwhile, both faithful believers and skeptic realists have no choice but to wait and see.
     
    #652 aldo90731, Nov 25, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  13. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    Yes, Cherokee sales were down 21,000 vehicles in 2016 and are on pace with lower this year because of a shorter model year, plant shuffle, and not being production for almost four months. Also the new Compass has ate into its sales because it's a new product. As well as its a proven fact vehicle sales are always down before a refresh. Remember the refresh for KL was due for the 2018 model year when it was launched at Belvidere? But FCA US decided to roll out a short and soft launch of a 2018 model to work out bugs and issues on the new line. 2019 model year starts on January 2nd.

    Not only does the 2019 KL get new exterior styling, but it gets new standard features to push it away from Compass in the lineup.

    i-qkfh97x-1.jpg
     
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  14. Erik Latranyi

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    I think what they are doing to the KL is in the right direction given they are hobbled by a refresh rather than an all-new platform. CUSW is not very suitable for a Jeep and the informed know it. FCA is making the best with what it has in this case.

    Sales are down this year. If the refresh works and sales increase, people will be raving about Jeep sales growth again.....just like the KL led Jeep sales growth after a year without any Liberty production and sales.

    Look behind the numbers and it is not as impressive. Compare the KL to the competition (Escape, Rav4, CRV) and it is far behind......and I assure you that Toyota and Honda make better margins on theirs than FCA does on the KL.
     
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  15. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    True, but people fail to see the big picture. FCA US is hard at work with the Chrysler brand, to develop it and expand it. First, because FCA US did not want to spend tens of billions building new plants, they had to spend billions to reshuffle plant production to built new product and more of that product. Warren Truck could hardly meet the demand for Ram 1500 sales currently. They expanded capacity by 20,000 units back in 2014 but that plant was pretty much maxed out. By moving production to Sterling Heights Assembly Plant they can build more units on one of the most profitable vehicles they sell.

    Dodge Dart and Chrysler 200 weren't dropped because they were sales failures. Dodge Dart sold lot more units than the Dodge Caliber and the Chrysler 200 (UF) sold numbers equal to production of both the Dodge Avenger and Chrysler 200 (JS) combined. It was due to the fact they were not making much profit on them. Labor rates, incentives, and people buying lower tier models instead of the more profitable higher trims are what killed them. FCA US looked for months with companies like Magna and Mazda to produce them south of the border in Mexico to continue production but the deals fell through.

    Instead those vehicles were axed to bring more profitable vehicles into the pipeline along with new product. But why is it taking so long to get new product? Two issues. One is sales of older models that are well paid off are cheap for consumers and cash cows for FCA US. The Dodge Grand Caravan and Dodge Journey are cheap, affordable cars that will not die due to success in sales and FCA US is banking a lot of coin on them until the 2020 model year when they will no longer meet federal crash test regulations without massive investiment. Both of these vehicles are holding up future product. But when you are making nothing but profit on them and demand is high, you are going to milk the heck out of them while you can.

    The second reason is eliminating debut. FCA US told departments not to spend any money unless it has to, to help eliminate its debt. This will put FCA but a solid position then it's current state for years to come. So vehicles like Ram 1500 (DT) pushed back from a 2018 model year launch to 2019, as well as the Cherokee (KL) refresh, and the long awaited launch of Wagoneer (WS) have been pushed back a model year. This allows for the plant shuffle to build more of these more profitable products as well. Smaller vehicles will be imported into the US and Canada like the new Compass. This also more profit from those products, while vehicles that cost more to make but have higher profit like Wrangler and Pacifica can continue to be manufactured in the US and Canada.

    Like I said, this had to be done. It was cheaper than building more plants and running underutilized plants like Belvidere, Sterling Heights and Toledo North.
     
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  16. T_690

    T_690 Active Member

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    Nice. But why is 2.4 staying?
     
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  17. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    You don't have to have a vehicle that leads in ever category to be a sales leader. If you can offer a product that is a good deal and gives people 80% of what they want. They will get behind it. Most people don't want the best of the best product when looking in the showroom. First question is always price, then its color. I worked as a salesman at the 2nd biggest Chrysler dealership in the country a decade ago. With sold well over 500 units a month. It was all about the best deal. I remember losing a customer over a Grand Caravan from another dealership further away on a trim down over an additional $6/month.

    I don't see how you think CUSW doesn't make a good Jeep? CUSW was designed to be the most capable and diverse FWD platform ever from Chrysler. Most Jeep buyers don't take their Jeeps offroad yet, the Cherokee Trailhawk is the most capable offroad vehicle in its class as well as more capable than most other vehicles in other classes.

    Screenshot_20171125-105011.jpg

    Screenshot_20171125-105045.jpg

    Screenshot_20171125-105214.jpg
     
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  18. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    Because until full production of Hurricane goes into effect and there has been a few issues that need to be worked out yet, it will stay in there for the 2019 model year. But Hurricane power is coming.
     
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  19. T_690

    T_690 Active Member

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    Let's call it a GME. When will naturally aspirated GME come?
     
  20. CudaPete

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    This shows how a Wrangler based Chrysler variant CUV could work.
     

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