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The future of Chrysler

Discussion in 'Rumors and Speculation' started by Dave Z, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

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    My boss at my prior employer was a superb ananlyst, but she made the lousiest department head. She was promoted to EVP and kept in that role for years even after 1/2 of the staff under her left. Eventually the financials that had kept her in place started to reflect the loss of valuable staff, until she too left.

    Each of us sees it every day: organizations place people in positions of authority for a variety of internal reasons, with overall competence for that job not always being among them.

    Some organizations simply don’t know what competence looks like, so they are willing to take whatever bits and pieces a known individual can get them.

    Automaking, being an old, mature, capital-intensive sector with long investment horizons is extremely tough to manage. Because of it, truly visionary CEOs are rare in this industry.
     
    #981 aldo90731, Jan 1, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
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  2. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    I worked for a government agency where they promoted someone just because they were tired of fixing her mistakes. Not the best management idea I've seen.
     
  3. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

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    I’ll bet.

    Each of my last two employers was 10,000+ in size, now I am partner in a very small organization of 6.

    Technology has made size irrelevant in my business, and that’s a good thing. Because the larger the organization, the easier for everyone to hide their mistakes. This is true whether it’s a restaurant, a hotel, a dealership, a market research firm, a bank or whatever.

    Now I tell my clients: I used to charge 5-Star prices and deliver 2-Star service; now I can charge 2-Star prices and provide 5-Star service.
     
    #983 aldo90731, Jan 1, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
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  4. danbek

    danbek Well-Known Member

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    Once again, some on this forum have their own agendas, know it all, and ad nauseam, throw it out there. The haters are gonna hate
    Yes
     
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  5. danbek

    danbek Well-Known Member

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    Nobody said that nor would you but, in my opinion and that's all that it is, is that you continually use a sledgehammer where a rubber mallot would do.
     
  6. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

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    Starting a schoolyard brawl to bring the discussion to a halt diminishes the purpose of these forums.

    We need to separate our arguments from ourselves, not come on here to discuss other members.

    If someone doesn’t agree with what another member has to say about Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Fiat, Alfa Romeo or the industry, we can either respond with our own argument, say nothing, or if we don’t like a member, put that person on ignore.

    If we don’t like —or can’t handle— the topic that’s being discussed on a thread, then we have no business being on that thread. It’s that simple.

    PS: I miss Strat!
     
    #986 aldo90731, Jan 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  7. Christopher

    Christopher Socially Unacceptable
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    Everyone is free to read and respond to a thread. Telling people they have no business being on the thread if they don't like it doesn't help the situation. The same could be said of people who do nothing but complain and contribute nothing positive to the discussion. There is a difference between criticism and complaining and all too often the criticism veers in to complaining.

    We all know that SM tends to say things that we wish he wouldn't. And if we took a step back from this microcosm, we'd realize that what he says has little to no impact on the general public's perception. Ask 5 random people what CEO called some of their divisions 'stumps' and I'd put money on the fact that none of them would guess SM.

    No one on this forum has the power to enact any change and complaining about the same thing over and over becomes whiny. People get tired of the usual suspects making the same tired, circular arguments. We get it. People aren't happy with decisions that were made. Whinging about it on an internet forum doesn't help, and it certainly doesn't contribute positively to the community. After awhile it's like being at Christmas dinner with the uncle who makes everyone uncomfortable.

    Anyone who follows these forums with any regularity knows *why* the 200/Dart were dropped. Not may people agree with it, but it is done. Rather than complain about what is done, why not focus on what could be done to get the company back on track. One of these looks back and one looks forward. Nothing can be done about one of those things while something can be done about the other. I know which discussion I'd rather be a part of.
     
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  8. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    But the public did pay attention to what Sergio says. When he made his comments on Dart and 200, sales dropped. So did resale value.

    Part of looking forward requires dealing with the past. And there is a reluctance to learn from past mistakes moving forward.
     
  9. Erik Latranyi

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    I think the some do not want any negativity. That is not what Allpar was setup for.....a positive only site.

    Secondly, the dropping of 200/Dart were not decisions made and now finished. It is having an impact on the company that we all want to see succeed.

    Discussing the consequences after 200/Dart were dropped is not the same thing over and over. It is reminding everyone that decisions have consequences, especially decisions that were unnecessary and really seemed like not well thought out.

    We try to contribute positively by showing how marketing, sales and all parts of the company are interconnected. We bring experience from the industry here as salespeople, suppliers, contractors, employees, etc.

    Lastly, it is easy to dismiss Sergio's "stump" comment by asking people outside of FCA. Go ask employees of FCA what they think. You might change your mind about why it makes me and many others angry.
     
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  10. SRTBrandon

    SRTBrandon Active Member

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    What if Jeep dropped all 2WD trims? That would in theory help Jeep stay closer to its roots while allowing room for 2WD Chrysler CUVs.
     
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  11. eggwhite93

    eggwhite93 Impatiently waiting for new product.
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    I would like to see that. I agree that Jeep should only sell 4WD vehicles. This would also give Chrysler room to sell softer (2WD or even AWD) models to the mass market. The one exception that I see is the Trackhawk/SRT variants. I would like to see FCA increase their use. I would love to have a Compass Trackhawk with a GME T4 HO.
     
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  12. Christopher

    Christopher Socially Unacceptable
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    I concede that it did have an impact on sales and resale value. That would likely happen anytime a model is going to be dropped. Yes, look at the past, but don't live there.


    I'm not saying everything has to, or even should be, positive. But there is a difference to contributing to a discussion in a positive manner and complaining.

    The decision to drop the 200/Dart IS finished for the time being. That doesn't mean that there are ramifications to that decision and that it isn't having a negative impact on the company. The question is, how does the company move forward from that decision. We can't change that it WAS done. We can't change what SM SAID. So how do we look forward to the future instead of dwelling on the past?

    I'm not saying everything has to, or should be, a positive comment about FCA. I find @aldo90731 analysis positive to the discussion even when they show decisions as bad. There is a difference between disagreeing in a discussion yet moving the discussion forward and having the same discussion over and over just to hear yourself (in general, not you specifically) talk thinking that if you repeat something often enough people will "get it." People already "get it." The difference is that some people want to move forward and some people want to stay stuck in that moment in time and dwell on all the the bad things happening and not any of the good.

    This exchange is something I consider a positive discussion. I may not agree with you. You may not agree with me, but if we're communicating effectively, we're both learning from the other and if we're lucky, will have a better understanding of each other's viewpoint when we're done, even if we don't agree.

    Making disparaging remarks about the company's management doesn't contribute to the discussion. There is a difference between saying "They're a bunch of incompetent fools for dropping the 200/Dart" and "I don't think they understand the long term ramifications of exiting a segment that makes up 40% of the market." While I may think the former, the latter is going to be less off-putting to people and is less antagonistic in general.

    I don't find it positive to the discussion when the stump comment is brought up at every possible moment. All it does is stir up anger, and that was my point. We get it, he shouldn't have made the comment. Or phrased it differently. But it was said. Dragging it out as often as you can doesn't help. Do you (the generic you) bring up something your wife/girlfriend/SO said 6 months ago every time you get in an argument or have you moved beyond it? If you're still stuck on that point, maybe you should reevaluate your relationship with that person. That was my point.


    Don't think that I think that dropping the 200/Dart was a good idea. Don't think that I think SM calling part of the company stumps was good. I don't. I do believe that the company has turned its back on a large segment of the population. In my admittedly small sample size, I know of 3 people who are/were in the market for a small/midsize car that will/would probably have purchased a FCA product if they were still making them.

    The fact is that we can't change history. So what does the company do moving forward?
     
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  13. Erik Latranyi

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    I am happy that we are having a good discussion.

    I bring up the "stump" comment when someone asks why hasn't Dodge or Chrysler gotten anything new in the last 8 years. I think there is a correlation.

    Also, the Hellcat/Demon is not something new. Those programs were started before FCA was created. I give them credit for continuing it. But not replacing the Charger/Challenger/300 with a platitecture that Dodge and Chrysler helped design and pay for it disconcerting after we were told that Alfa could not exist without Dodge volume....another statement that was withdrawn recently.

    There is a pattern emerging of the CEO saying things about product and then walking it back. There is a pattern emerging of a CEO who denigrates his products (not just 200/Dart) and the employees who have been sacrificing since the bankruptcy.

    I guess that is what upsets me the most and makes me completely hostile to Sergio is the way he is treating the good people inside FCA. They bent over backwards for Marchionne when he came in because the company was at stake. Eight years later, they are still operating in emergency mode and those people are burning out left and right.

    Now, after all that you add that Marchionne blamed the woes of 200 on design employees in public, that is disheartening.

    Now imagine if you have been working your butt off in the Dodge or Chrysler division.....thinking you have them stabilized and on the right track.....and you hear the CEO call them the "stumps" of the company?

    What do you think that does to morale and work ethic inside the company?

    Some of those employees are my friends and every one of them felt like they had been betrayed. All their hard work, all their extended hours (with no pay because they are salary) worth nothing.

    Most are now looking to leave the company that does not appreciate the sacrifices or contributions they have made.
     
  14. jorisr

    jorisr Well-Known Member

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    For those who didn´t read the earning call´s transcript in which the "stump" comment was made i would like to inform them of what was actually said by SM.

    The following analyst asked a question during the Earnings call of Q2 2017:
    Philippe Jean Houchois - Jefferies International Ltd.:
    "Absolutely. It was just – but you've become more credible because you've done it. In other words, we can talk about it endlessly and almost like it never happened in some cases. But my point is in any kind of spin-off, there's a good side and there's a, let's say, lesser good side that's left behind. And what I hear some of the speculation on the Street on what could happen, the wonderful things happen in FCA in the future. To what extent do you take into account the viability of what's left behind? Because you do have an unusual collection of brands that are more or less successful and so we can speculate about what you can do. At the same time you've got to make sure that there's a viability in what's left behind."

    And SM gave this answer:

    "No, I wholeheartedly agree and that's why I've been incredibly reluctant, other than acknowledging the possibility of doing things I've never made a commitment to doing any of the spin-offs that have been referred to, because we do need to worry about the stump that's left behind. I mean there is a piece of business that needs to be looked after, which is relatively large and if we start picking away all the things that appear to be interesting to people, then I think we're going to end up with a suboptimal business that cannot run."

    So in other words he says in very general terms that spinning of one or more of the most valuable parts of a business would have a major impact on the viability of the remaining parts of the business.
    He never mentions any brand or part of the business, he just mentions that he does not think it would be a good idea to do so.

    Make up your own mind about what was said.
     
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  15. CivoLee

    CivoLee Active Member

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    I think if I had to fault Sergio Marchionne for anything in particular, it's how he perceives the general public. He's claimed that people don't care about what wheels drive the car (which is probably true, but that's no way for an automotive CEO to talk). He's publicly said he wishes certain models sell less because of their cost to produce (the Fiat 500E). He thinks you can force any car buyer into a CUV, because on the surface it looks like that's where the market is heading. He slams models for selling badly without thinking it'll effect their resale value.

    And the fact that neither John Elkann nor the Agnellis have reprimanded him for any of this speaks volumes.
     
  16. aldo90731

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    At the very least, it would help create brand separation, which seems to be an ongoing concern of management. On the other hand, it clips Chrysler's wings if it wanted to offer AWD.

    Subaru has been able to build and grow a brand based on AWD --BRZ notwithstanding.
     
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  17. Lee N. Burns

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    You speak truth, but you forgot a point... It makes it that much harder to recruit/conquest new talent.
     
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  18. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    So the stump could be Lancia or a particular car...
     
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  19. Ernesto

    Ernesto Active Member

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    What I know. After about 35 new Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth purchases, I'm genuinely irked that my last purchase is an orphan 2015 200 Limited. Had I had any idea the car would have been prematurely canned I never would have bought it. A couple months after purchase the car was about $500 under comparable Malibu in my zip code according to KBB. Today about $1700 under. This car has performed flawlessly for 25,181 miles and I really like it. The down side? I'm stuck with it. I'm more irked than Erik.
     
  20. CherokeeVision

    CherokeeVision Well-Known Member

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    If the two brands overlapped only in regards to all wheel drive I think that could work.
    Chrysler - 2 wheel drive and softer riding all wheel drive with refinement
    Jeep - sporty all wheel drive and firmer riding four wheel drive
     
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