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Discussion in 'Rumors and Speculation' started by CherokeeVision, Sep 21, 2017.
IIRC, it will be optional on the lower model
That would be good!
Good points, though, I think Dave's comment that part of what keeps the Wrangler at the front of the envelope is its refusal to diminish capability is also to point. The 4 door was definitely a game changer for the JK and the growth allowed as a result may not be able to be matched but the JT will help. Exports have also been severely limited over the last few years to sustain the volume needed in North America. The JK din't actually offer much more than the TJ in regards to off road equipment. The TJ was available with Dana 44s, disconnecting sway bars and the 4:1 transfer case. The JK just kept the options going.
Adding full time 4WD can actually be a game changer for many...posers and 4x4 crowds alike. Expanding the engine lines can do likewise.
Jeep could go revolutionary with a suspension setup reminiscent of Lil' Blue but no matter how capable, there would be traditionalists who would revolt and not even give it a chance. Jeep are truly in a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation with the Wrangler. From what I have seen, I think they choose wisely but only time will tell. Personally, I'd still love to see an XJII but the JT diesel is also a nice thing to dream about.
I, for one, am really interested in a full time 4WD option for Wrangler. It doesn't matter to me if it's a standard feature on certain models or not, as long as the option is available. I don't recall if it was ever standard on Liberty, but it was definitely an option when I bought my Renegade back in 02. I regretted not opting for it when I placed my order...and I had to order because manuals were hard to come by then. The boss says I'm not allowed to get a manual anymore...so there's that.
I'm not going to do rock climbing. I'm ok with admitting that. Lol. But I do use my vehicles...Liberty and TJ before that...to get back and forth to work in all conditions. From nor' easters, blizzards, ice storms, hurricanes, and everything in between. A full time 4WD option gives me more options for capability in different environmental conditions. Have I gotten by without it up until now? Yes. Heck, I survived Central NY winters in a FWD Escort. However, when driving in muck, it's best to have as much capability as you can get...you never know when you'll need it. Would another vehicle suffice, as in a different Jeep? Perhaps...but WANT very much comes into play as well.
I've had to get over fallen trees during storms, get up flooded streets, and get down Rt81 in NY & the Northeast extension of the Pennsylvania turnpike in blizzards as they are shutting down the highways...and I got through with relative ease because of the vehicle, combined with not driving like a nut (mostly). Would a full time 4WD option have been any better than the part time systems I've had? In some cases yes, it would've been nice to have it.
I'm curious if this will be an option on JT as well. It's not a deal-breaker by any means, on either JL or JT (haven't decided on which one yet), but it's definitely interesting.
This is going down the same "trail" DOJ did; what is a "Jeeper" and what is a Jeep for? My wife is in an RN and is in a similar situation as Zagnut. She must get to work in all conditions. Calling in is not an option so she has the Wrangler. This is why I was saying that the transition from snow to dry pavement can be problematic with the current tranfer case. AWD may suit her needs better. ( She's not getting a new Jeep though because of the life time warrantee). As witnessed in the DOJ thread some people took issue with this and that a Jeep was primarily for off-road use and if you did not venture off-road with it you were not a true Jeeper. Hence my suggestion for the Chrysler version that could be the urban Wrangler while not diluting the original. Apparently, simply suggesting this this can be an issue too.
Yup, I too am a RN. And calling out because of the weather is just not an option. And I've never been forced to stay at the hospital during a storm because I'm always confident I can get home...no matter what is happening outside. The point is, the abilities of Wrangler and similar vehicles (loosely similar) are not only demonstrated by climbing over rocks. That is such a limited description of what these vehicles are capable of. I've never climbed over boulders in either my Wrangler or my Liberty, but I have gotten over other types of obstacles, water fording, and through very deep snow and mud. I may not be a rock climber, but I'm very much a Jeeper and always will be. Do I use every feature and capability of all my vehicles? No. But then who does?
Where I feel trouble arises is when folks who don't use a lot of features of a vehicle end up lobbying for elimination of certain features to make a vehicle more to their liking. That leads me to believe that that wasn't the right vehicle for them in the first place, and perhaps should've chosen a different vehicle that would suit their tastes. I may not have used all the capabilities of either my Wrangler or my Liberty, but I realize they're there for a reason whether I use them or not, and there are those who do use them.
I don't know, maybe I'm rambling (probably am). But I do know I love myself some Jeeps...especially Wrangler and my Liberty. They've gotten me through some pretty nasty situations in one piece, and for that I am eternally grateful.
People love to joke about 4x4's in the city (mall rated) but I'd much rather be in my XJ in a parking lot than our Malibu for all the reasons you noted above.
Indeed. But I wouldn't let the Jeeper-vs-non Jeeper dynamic bother me too much. It is a sign that the product is important enough to motivate people to stand up and speak up. That tension is little different from that we see for Porsches, BMWs, Mustangs or Ferraris.
Because of that tension, the decision to take a brand-defining model and spin it around to extract additional sales should never be taken lightly. Especially if that process is seen to represent a threat, a set of compromises or merely a natural evolution of the original formula that established that reputation. In my mind at least, that's what this, and the DoJ thread before it, is about.
The answer likely is, as is usually the case, a little bit of everything: a little bit of new and a little bit of old. How much of each is the ongoing cause for discussion.
Funny you mention this. Yesterday my buddy and I went up to a place called Twin Lakes, which is 5,000 feet atop Winchester Mountain in NW Washington State. The trail is very popular with hikers and motorists, and therefore well maintained. Besides a handful of spots where a regular car is going to scrape the bottom, many people actually drive up in their Corollas, CR-Vs and Jettas. The vistas alone are well worth the drive.
On the way down, we come up to a complete stop behind a line of about seven vehicles: a couple of CR-Vs a RAV4, a Cadillac SRX, a Lexus RX and a Toyota Tacoma. I get out and walk to the front of the line to find out what's causing the hold up: a couple of young hikers in a brand-new Accord pulled too far to the left of the trail to park the car, and the side of the car fell into the ditch. The rear passenger wheel was up in the air, and the front air dam and driver side rocker panel were caught in some big rocks. The young driver was relaxed but clearly at a loss. As I scout the faces of the drivers of the Cadillac SRX, Lexus RX, CR-Vs and RAV4s, I see the same face of impassibility. The Tacoma driver was holding a recovery line in his hands but doing little else. So I offer "I can pull you out if I can get through all of these vehicles." At that point, everyone got moving and cleared out, I was able to get behind the Accord, hooked up the line to my rear tow hook, engaged 4WD-Lo just in case, and with a gentle tug scraped the bottom of his car over the rocks and back onto the trail.
The whole thing was short and sweet; no more than 3 minutes. As I drove down to the base I wondered why everyone else just stood there doing nothing. Then it occurred to me, I probably wouldn't feel very comfortable either offering to pull anyone with a CR-V, SRX or RX.
Here are some pix from yesterday. My buddy's 4X4 is a 1994 Mitsubishi Delica turbodiesel. That thing is stout! He paid C$5000 for it. Canada now allows gray market imports from Japan after 15 years of use. It's been a boon for off-roaders. I know several who sold their Rubicon for a used diesel Land Cruiser or Pajero.
Going up Winchester Mountain. North Cascades behind us; you can faintly see Mount Baker on the top left
This thing is amazingly capable
A taste of the rewards at the end of the trail
Jeep could make a version of that... Now that would be a van I might be interested in.
Indeed. But be careful what you wish for. Under current management, it would be built on a stretched Fiat 500, with a 1.5 turbo and an AWD with a rotary dial
Well the Mitsubishi Delica 4x4 You photographed, L300 for many "export" markets, had a 2.5 turbo diesel engine, maximum power output 86HP (DIN) at 4200 rpm, torque 201 Nm (148 ft-lb) at 2000 rpm.
Just to give an idea it has a power output/torque of a modern 1.3 diesel (the maximum torque in a 1.3 is at 1500 rpm).
A 1.6 turbo diesel instead has about 120 HP and maximum torque 320 Nm (236 lb ft).
Indeed. That thing is slow. But it is body-on-frame, and has a part-time 4WD with 4-Lo and mechanical limited-slip differential. I saw that thing get out of situations that would make a Wrangler owner blush.
Here she is again, in the back, two winters ago in Western Canada. That dune-colored Jeep was my 2014 JKU Sahara; the one in front is a Rubicon. That Delica went wherever the two JKs went.
I didn't see too many Mitsubishi Delicas like the one @aldo90731 shared while I was in Okinawa, but I did see (and drool over) a bunch of the newer ones like these.
Something like that could serve as the family hauler and also the Liberty replacement I've been looking for...sigh. I guess I'll still have to get a Durango AND a JL/JT.
I've looked into purchasing a Delica similar to the one Aldo has shown but the support network for such vehicles are much less on the East Coast of the country. Definitely capable machines!
It is of note that at the newest, this crop of vehicles are 15 years old. A truly modern Delica (which won't be available in Canada for another 5 years) is now a part time/full time 4WD with a CVT. Not sure if it has a low range. It is also no longer body on frame and no longer available with a diesel engine.
"Current Generation The D:5 Delica was released January 2007. It is built on an all new GS Platform that it shares with the Outlander, Lancer, Lancer Evolution X, and RSR (ASX in Australia). The major improvements over previous models have come in the development of the chassis which is now a Rib-bone frame Monocoque"
D:5 Mitsubishi Delica, The latest generation of Delica (at http://d5delica.com )
While the monocoque and 4wd system don't bother me since they alone would not hinder capability, the loss of the diesel might.
All of these Mitsubishi Delica hand-raisers on here, as well as the Pajero and Land Cruiser hand-raisers not present on these forums, represent real competition for Jeep Wrangler as an off-road vehicle in export markets we don't normally think about.
My buddy shopped for a used JKU before getting that Delica, but he couldn't justify paying C$40,000+ for a used Jeep that would get beat up in the bush. My other friend sold his black Rubicon Unlimited and bought a used Lexus LX450. He just loves the triple locker setup, and has been modifying it for about a year, turning it into his "ideal" bush vehicle.
There are very active online communities where gray market Pajero and Land Cruiser owners stay connected and share information.
Affordability has long-been part of Wrangler's success. Offering a diesel option will likely alleviate some of the competition in export markets. But as the the price of Wranglers keeps going up, and staying up, the more creative off-roaders will need to get.
That Delica looks like something I'd be interested in. Too bad there isn't something like that available.
Don't be silly - Jeeps don't rate a rotary dial!