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The loss of 200 and Dart....

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by CDJSalesPro, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. page2171

    Level 2 Supporter

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    All 12,000 of them for this year. Yes, not many, but more than zero.
     
  2. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Registrations/sales of Toyota Corolla worldwide for the first 10 months of 2017 are down -5.8%, as well as VW Golf -4.1%.
    The one that increased is the Civic with its new model +24.3%.
    Ford Focus -9.2%, VW Polo -6.5%, Toyota Camry -1.8%, Hyundai Elantra -24.7%, VW Jetta -10.0%, Honda Accord +0.8%, VW Lavida -9.3%, VW Passat -9.1%, Buick Excelle +245.7%, Skoda Octavia -6.8%, ...
    World Best Selling Car. The Top 100 Models in the 2017 (at http://focus2move.com/world-best-selling-car/ )

    What would You think of a transportation service that:
    - send You a small car when You have to go downtown
    - send You a minivan if You have many persons to transport or You have to go to buy something voluminous uhmm maybe You'll need a commercial van
    - no need to bring the car for service/repair/... You'll have always a car that will work
    - if the car stops, another car will arrive and You'll continue the travel without having to deal with the broken car
    - ...

    And most important, will cost less than owning a car.
     
    #362 MJAB, Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  3. Judas Shuttlesworth

    Judas Shuttlesworth Active Member

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    I wonder what the profit margins are on the 500, 500L, 500X, and 124? It's odd how that never gets mentioned.

    The Dart and 200 were complete and total money sucking leeches, but the Fiats always get a pass. The Dart and 200 were just more products in the lineup, but the Fiats had to have their own stand alone dealer network.

    Now in fairness...you'd have to be able to actually sell them to find out, but I'm sure the numbers are super impressive.
     
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  4. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    All I am asking is for the same logic to be applied to Fiat’s US lineup as was to Dart and 200.

    Terminating Fiat’s slow selling models eliminates yearly costs. Why keep throwing money in a hole?
     
  5. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    Profits? Fiat thought they’d sell as “premium” small cars. Now they cut about $2k off MSRP and they still don’t sell. I doubt there is profit.
     
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  6. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    Yes, I would buy from that company if they offered the product I wanted in the future. The Pacifica is all the proof I need that the company is capable of making compelling high quality products and I would have no concern buying from FCA if/when they introduce another product in a category that I am interested in. The vast majority of potential FCA customers have no idea that any of this was said.
     
  7. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    Well of course I expect a change during the refresh otherwise it's really not a refresh, right?
     
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  8. Christopher

    Christopher Socially Unacceptable
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    Probably to give legitimacy to the F in FCA here in the US.

    But I agree. Fiat should be axed in the US.
     
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  9. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    I suspect the last is still somehow related to Alfa - we'll see how that plays out. As to the first 2 statements, Sergio also allowed the Dart and 200 to be developed and sold, but found that they were competing in a much tougher market than minivans or full size cars and the FCA products failed economically. It wasn't so much a lack of will as an attempt that failed. Could it have been fixed in the longer term? Perhaps, but to survive the next downturn, FCA needs to shore up the balance sheet and couldn't afford to keep hemoraging cash on those vehicles. That's the bottom line. Like it or not FCA is not strong enough yet to push through. They retreated to their areas of strength trucks, minivans, SUV/CUV and large cars.
     
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  10. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    That might be true if the product is terrific and you are making a loyal customer. If the product is just me too, or worse, poor, you're better off to NOT offer the product. A bad experience tends to lead to a lost customer for life while no experience leaves you a chance (even if diminished) to win the customer in the future.
     
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  11. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    If vehicles in 2030 were going to be like vehicles today or 13 years ago in 2004, then you'd likely be right. That prediction is based upon the fundamental shift coming to the marketplace with autonomous shared transportation in urban/suburban areas. The first vehicles to be replaced by the new breed will be bread and butter compact and mid-sized sedans simply because these are the very vehicles being driven today by those who won't buy a personal car in the future for their daily commute.
     
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  12. Judas Shuttlesworth

    Judas Shuttlesworth Active Member

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    Dart sales in the US from beginning to end, 2012 to 2017 totals 333,000
    200 sales in the US during 2015 alone totaled 167,000.

    Regarding the Dart and 200, Sergio Marchionne stated "I don't know one investment that was as bad as these two were."

    Really Sergio? One investment comes immediately to mind...

    Entire US sales for Fiat, all models, 2011 to present (and generously assuming 13,000 sales for 2017) is 165,000.
     
  13. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    There's a reason. It could be as simple as there's a poison pill clause in the dealer franchise agreement that costs FCA far more to shut down Fiat than to plug along.... It wouldn't surprise me since they needed to convince dealers to invest in a standalone facility for a brand that had no current track record in the US and the ancient track record was poor. How many dealers would have signed up without some form of downside financial protection? If anybody has access to a Fiat dealer agreement, please share.
     
  14. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Fiat 500 registration in European Union + EFTA countries (3 countries) were 183.194, that is its highest result since introduction in 2007, first 6 months 2017 was at +4% over 2016.

    When Dodge Journey and Fiat 500 production in Toluca plant in Mexico will stop, than there will place there for other car assembly.
    Fiat 500 production will be moved to Tichy plant in Poland (that now terminated the production of Ford Ka for european market).

    Registrations of Fiat 500X in European Union + EFTA countries were in 2016 104.931, for 2017 should be about 100k.

    Registrations of 500L in European Union + EFTA countries were in 2016 82.150.
    This year registrations will be lower.
    For this year there was a facelift + a strike at serbian plant.

    Fiat 124 registrations after 6 months of 2017 were 4.803 , the ones of the Mazda MX-5 9.365.
    For 2016 were 3.717, with first month may 2016 with 32.
     
  15. EVOL

    EVOL Active Member

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    Its highly likely Fiat is only being sold here for CAFE reasons. Sell the cars at nearly zero profit OR pay huge fines, pick one.
     
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  16. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    That's the problem Dart and 200 likely lost money on each and every unit sold and had a huge multi billion investment to bring to market. Fiat needed only a fraction of a billion to bring existing global models to the US and even if they are losing more per Fiat sold, the very fact that they sell so few means the losses are far less.
     
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  17. Judas Shuttlesworth

    Judas Shuttlesworth Active Member

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    We're not talking about Europe.
     
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  18. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    But it does matter that Fiats are produced and sold globally. It exempts them from the capacity shuffle since the capacity they are using would otherwise just be excess and wasted the NA affected models (Dart and 200) were occupying a lot of capacity that could be re-purposed to build vehicles expected to have much better margin.
     
  19. DarkSky

    DarkSky Moderator
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    Having Fiat in the US just to justify the "F" in FCA would be unnecessary. Fuji Heavy Industries was an unknown brand to most people but they were the parent company of Subaru before it was renamed to the Subaru Corporation.
     

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