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The loss of 200 and Dart....

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by CDJSalesPro, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. somber

    somber 370,000 miles

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    Sure, great products CAN be produced anywhere. But it appears that the legal consequences of producing hazardous products (hydrogen sulfide in drywall, melamine in pet foods, chloropropane in soy sauce, etc) are less in China. Manufacturers in other countries doing those things would suffer severe penalties, while it seems to me that companies that do them in China get a slap on the wrist.

    But perhaps my impression is wrong?
     
  2. Chase300

    Chase300 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like the Subaru stuck in the snow outside my subdivision...HA!

    But seriously, Subaru is going after a different buyer than say Dodge.
    They are targeting point A to B outdoors people and point A to B buyers I would argue are more likely not to be interested in extra options or care about supple Nappa leather seats or big hi-power stereo as they are probably the same people who would think that those options are just more to go wrong.
    Dodge is selling more on emotion which a lot buyers buy on otherwise most of us would just buy Corolla's.
    Jeep consistently finishes at the bottom of reliability ratings and in CR tests yet people still buy them and in record amounts.
    Why? Because Jeep buyers clearly value the other attributes of their Jeeps more than reliability. Or the reliability is acceptable to them.
    Point A to B buyers are looking at reliability and value/cost.
    Buyers of Challengers or SRT Chargers or Durango's are not so much wanting to see commercials about reliability as that is considered a standard at those price levels by buyers. No they want to see them smoking the tires and hearing about the launch control and performance pages.
    BTW anyone driven recent Subaru's of the last few years? Their cars are straight out of the 90's...like a time warp to back then.
     
  3. NWbyNW

    NWbyNW Active Member

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    100% agree with this topic's initial post. The 200 and Dart were excellent cars in their own right. Never should have been axed. People ask all the time to see what other offerings of sedans there are for Chrysler and Dodge, and... well the Charger and 300 aren't the size they want. Such a shame. These two cars could have just been improved upon slightly each year. They were already winning cars... :( Even worse, not new Chrysler vehicles down the pipeline that is official.
     
  4. 97 plymouth neon expresso

    97 plymouth neon expresso Well-Known Member

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    Heads of manufacturers have been executed in China for overseeing the production of toxic products
     
  5. butJohnDoe

    butJohnDoe Active Member

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    The failure of a state to create and enforce certain regulations and rules is not that states fault?
    It has to be someones fault, notice how the producer who wanted that cheap and toxic product didn't have it made in America for some reason. No one is saying that it is impossible to have a quality product produced in China and have it come out as you want it. You invented that strawman.
    People are basically saying that they can't trust products from China because it's possible to produce very bad quality and dangerous products there, because there is no proper regulatory and testing oversight, and thus they don't want to buy and use products made there and prefer to buy and use products made in places where they can trust that they are safe. That makes complete sense. But you tell them that their concerns are wrong because someone had a good product produced in China once, so it's not Chinas fault that dangerous products are made there.
     
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  6. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    When a brand runs out of options, like Dodge, it needs to either discount or start carving up niches to find someone to sell to. Subaru is going after prime buyers who can get qualified without incentives. That’s the pregorarive of a strong brand.

    That’s because everyone wants quality, even Dodge buyers. On the other hand, not everyone wants performance. So Subaru is going after a much larger pool of buyers.

    Subaru sold 605,000 units this year in the US, without much incentives and sales are growing. Dodge sold 445,000 units, and sales are going in the opposite direction.

    Early indications are that Subaru Ascent will sell like hot cakes. Subaru should pass the 1 million units sold before end of decade.
     
    Erik Latranyi likes this.
  7. BobbiBigWheels

    BobbiBigWheels The "Front-Line" Perspective

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    @aldo90731 you have always spoken fondly of Subaru. Just my 2cents, but I would never buy one unless it was a WRX STI kitted out like a WRC Rally car. Subaru only has a soft-spot for me due to its Rally heritage, otherwise I find they sell an extremely unattractive vehicle and sedans that blend in with everything else on the market, aside from AWD.
     
  8. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    I use Subaru as an objective example of an automaker that is doing things well.

    Personally, I find them unattractive as well. I don’t see myself owning one.

    The more reason Subaru is proof that attractive styling is not a requirement to grow volume.
     
    Erik Latranyi likes this.
  9. BobbiBigWheels

    BobbiBigWheels The "Front-Line" Perspective

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    Back to our SPACED conversation -

    Performance and Appearance are 2 key points in my buying decision.

    Economy and Dependability were not, and I am on the "all new cars are safe" team, as I truly feel that way.
     
  10. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    You already trust Dodge quality and safety, so you are able to move to the next level in your buying criteria: performance and appearance. But the vast majority of shoppers haven’t gotten to trust Dodge’s quality and safety yet, so before they can move on to performance and appearance, they go elsewhere.

    The market speaks loudly: ugly designs and all, Subaru retains customers at 2.5 times higher than Dodge, and Subaru sales are growing, not shrinking.
     
  11. BobbiBigWheels

    BobbiBigWheels The "Front-Line" Perspective

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    True - however I did not need convincing that Dodge's vehicles were safe or dependable. Perhaps I am naive, but the only brand I truly distrust for quality is Kia, and they earned that distrust from my own personal experience with their product. I don't trust reviewers to be unbiased in their rankings, and so I discard most information on a product's quality or dependability and rely on real people's experiences with the product.

    I always lean on this analogy - If you see a preview for a movie versus if a friend of yours says you should go see a movie -> which is more likely to sway your decision?
     
  12. mopar22

    mopar22 Well-Known Member

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    The dart was far from a winning car. It was good/alright depending what you're talking about but it wasn't great in any one thing, even my frined with a dart thinks that too. 200 maybe with the v6/awd, never had/drove it one for enough time to tell but i have a dart.
     
  13. wolfsblood07

    wolfsblood07 Active Member

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    China? Ford should make the Focus in Dearborn or Highland Park. American cars should be assembled in America by UAW workers. Like the Dodge Avenger!
     
  14. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    You are not naive, you are just young. :)

    Remember what I said before: young people have fewer loyalties for the simple reason that they haven’t established one yet. And they tend to place styling and performance in higher regard than older buyers. But as you acquire responsibilities and a family, your priorities will shift towards placing quality and safety in higher importance.

    You already admitted you don’t trust Kia quality. So you are confirming my point that everyone cares about quality, young and old. You are simply going through life finding out who, and who not, to trust.

    Now, you may very well stay with Dodge all your life and never have any quality issues. And if that happens, chances are you will establish a lifelong loyalty towards Dodge. Many people on these forums have, myself included.

    But you, me and many others on these forums are in a shrinking minority. The number of people who have gotten burned by Dodge quality over the years is significant, and they went on to own Hondas, Toyotas, Subarus or whatever. That’s what customer retention and defection patterns show.

    This is what FCA has to change. It needs to be able to hold onto customers like you, me, and many members on these forums, in much greater numbers. And the way to do that is by making sure more people who own a Dodge, like you and me, don’t run into the quality problems that will make us go to the competition.
     
  15. somber

    somber 370,000 miles

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    I'll look some more - haven't seen anything like that. A link would be appreciated.
     
  16. EVOL

    EVOL Active Member

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    Dodge's problem with retaining customers isn't all do with quality. A lot of people go out and buy 392's and then realize that even though its a lot of bang for the buck at purchase time, they are far from cheap to operate as daily drivers. Gas is one thing, 20" tires that melt away in a year, Brembo brake maintenance, synthetic oil changes, insurance - if you live in the snow belt, then add 20" snow tires or a complete tire/wheel package. I think most guys run them for a year or so and then flip into something less expensive to operate.

    The problem is - unless you want a truck, Jeep or Durango - they have nothing else for you that's sporty and fun unless you want the same car with a smaller engine - and nobody goes that route.

    I saw a report last year and don't quote me but I believe it stated that Charger ownership on average was under 1 year. Even taking rentals out of the equation, that's a problem.
     
  17. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    Lol - I look at these two ads and being too blind to read the copy on my phone I get a message different than what I think Subaru intended. In the first it appears to me that someone tried to take their Subaru off-roading and it didn't work out too well. The second screams "Hey, it sure was nice of mom and pop to give us their old Subaru as a wedding present and to think all they wanted in return was for me to move out of the basement! :p
     
  18. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    Those changes are due to US engineering decisions, not manufacturing Suzq
     
  19. suzq044

    suzq044 Resident Photoshop Nerd

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    fair enough, but quality is quality; end-user sees it all as the same thing. If it breaks easily, it's got bad quality, regardless of reasoning. Like the Samsung Note debacle, etc.
     
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  20. Ernesto

    Ernesto Active Member

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