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The NEW Ongoing Allpar Blunder Recovery System

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Dave Z, Mar 26, 2017.

  1. Scrounge

    Scrounge Got parts?
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  2. 1999 White C5 Coupe

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  3. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Thanks, will fix these when I can.
     
  4. Scrounge

    Scrounge Got parts?
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    Willys report:

    Willys-Overland: lightweight cars from Whippet to Jeep (at https://www.allpar.com/cars/adopted/willys.html )

    Second sentence: "The story when the Standard Wheel Company bought a car design from Claude Cox, creating its Overland Automobile Division, in 1903." Would read better if "begins" or "starts" or "commences" or something similar were inserted between "story" and "when".

    Roughly halfway down: "One key to the Whippet was its engine, which had a cooling pump, full-pressure lubrication, and, starting in 1939, four-wheel hydraulic brakes based on the Chrysler-Lockheed design." I recall mentioning this before, but I think it was on the Whippet page: 1939 should be 1930.

    Good overview. Too bad that the Willys name didn't survive, he was important during the early decades of automobile development.
     
  5. 1999 White C5 Coupe

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  6. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Oops. Will fix when it's possible. Thanks.
     
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  7. Scrounge

    Scrounge Got parts?
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    1979-81 police cars:

    The Dodge St. Regis and Plymouth Gran Fury police car (at https://www.allpar.com/squads/stregis.html )

    Third paragraph: "New emissions controls, not yet countered by technology. hampered performance — as did the loss of the 360 four-barrel after their first year; in 1980 and 1981, they used a 318 four-barrel."

    3 paragraphs later: "In the book’s survey, officers wrote that the 360 powered 1980 St. Regis was the best Mopar police car of all time."

    During Curtis Redgap's report: "I experienced all three years of the “R” bodies, with a 1979 Newport, 1980 Gran Fury, and 1981 Gran Fury, two with the 360 pursuit and one with the 318 four barrel."

    Second to last paragraph: " I was a career Trooper, and one of my favorites all around was my unmarked 1980 St. Regis. It had a 360 four-barrel"

    Either the 360 was available for 1980 models, or it wasn't. Given the personal reports, I'd guess that it was.
     
  8. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Will have to dig into that. It's hard to figure out that sort of thing. People often remember incorrectly, which doesn't help.
     
  9. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Here's the low-down:
    Federal cop cars got the E58 360 powered R body cop cars in 1979 and 1980. For 1981 the 318 was the largest engine.
    In California, 1979 got the E58 360. The 1980 and 1981 R bodies got the 318.
    California's emissions laws killed the 360 a year earlier than the rest of the country.
    As a side note: Despite the complaints about the slow 1980 318-4 St Regis in California, it beat the competition. Think how bad the other cars were in testing.
     
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  10. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Thanks. That helps.

    It took a long time for automakers to realize that spending $100/car instead of $20 car, to go from a carb to a single-point injector, would save them a LOT of money overall (warranty claims, tuning, performance and emissions, etc.)

    Also I think some of them thought carbs were more fun (I can see that argument) and easily upgradable (definitely). But I know at least some of the engineers were pushing for EFI long before 1981.
     
  11. Scrounge

    Scrounge Got parts?
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    Max Wedge page:

    Mopar Max Wedge: maximum output (at https://www.allpar.com/WEDGE.HTML )

    "In June of 1957 the AMA (Automobile Manufacturing Association), fearing a government and public outcry over safety issues, passed a ban on all factory-sponsored racing activities. Compliance with this ban did not last long [and did not prevent automakers from adding power to their engines]. In 1960, Ford was the first to defy the order, by producing the "Special Power" 352 CID engine. Chevrolet and Pontiac also jumped into the fray with 409s and "Tri-power" carb setups."

    "Tri-power" was introduced by Pontiac during the 1957 model year, and other GM makes, including even Cadillac, offered the option for at least 3 model years:

    The Pontiac Tri-Power Story (at https://macsmotorcitygarage.com/the-pontiac-tri-power-story/ )

    "Mopar had no such "image" product at the time."

    The author ignored the Letter 300 series, which came standard with dual quads, and for 1960, had cross-ram induction, mentioned two paragraphs later. And Dodge offered a D500 for the 1960 model year:

    Dodge D-500 cars and packages: early performance cars (at https://www.allpar.com/model/d500.html )
     
  12. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Ack. You're right about the D500. I think the 300 letter cars probably don't count, but I'll accept that.

    Will fix if/when I can.
     
  13. Scrounge

    Scrounge Got parts?
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    When the author sticks to the Max Wedge, it's a very good report. But his introduction seems hurried.
     
  14. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    Good de-blundering Scrounge!

    Not to mention the first American vehicle to offer 1 HP./CID as standard equipment

    the 1957 DeSoto Adventurer with 345 of each.

    Even the mighty C 300 never achieved this goal, until the modern Gen III.

    D500's with dual 4 bbl carbs were available prior to 1960

    Thanks
    Randy
     
    #494 GLHS60, Mar 29, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
  15. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    There is a problem with this sentence:
    "The 1980 Road Runner was the final year — as it was for the Volare. The two cars shared all the same engines — except one: only the Road Runner could get the 318 four-barrel."
    on this page:
    The Plymouth Road Runner in Alternative Bodies: Fury and Volare Roadrunner (at https://www.allpar.com/model/road-runners.html )

    The 318-4 bbl motor was not a Road Runner exclusive For 1980, the 318-4 motor was the High Altitude and California Emission package V8 option. Federal emission packages only offered the 318-2 as the optional V8.
     
  16. Scrounge

    Scrounge Got parts?
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  17. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    Not to be argumentative but Allpars article on the 1958's mentioned dual 4 bbls ??

    Shows a photo of one:
    Chrysler Corporation of 1958: fixing the quality, dealing with the backlash (at https://www.allpar.com/history/chrysler-years/1958.html )

    1958 Dodge brochure doesn't give much detail

    1959 Dodge brochure shows an optional Super D 500 with dual 4 bbls
    Directory Index: Dodge/1959_Dodge/1959_Dodge_Brochure (at http://oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Dodge/1959_Dodge/1959_Dodge_Brochure/1959%20Dodge-14.html )

    Thanks
    Randy
     
  18. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Always impressed me that early Road Runners clearly stated they had an ENGINE!!

    Thanks
    Randy

     
  19. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    I probably missed it but I don't see any mention of the 1957 Dodge D 501 Engine package at Allpar.

    Thanks
    Randy
     
  20. Scrounge

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    Had I researched a bit deeper, I'd have seen that the D500 page is incomplete. According to the Standard Catalog of Chrysler, the D500 engine was available in 1958 and 1959, though no models were specified, so it could have been installed across the line. For 1958, the D500 engine was a 361 4-bbl rated at 305 bhp; the Super D500 engine was a 361 dual-quad, rated at 320 bhp (a fuel-injected 361 was rated at 333 bhp, but only 12 were produced, and all were recalled). For 1959 the D500 was a 383; the 4-bbl generated 320 bhp, the dual-quad generated 345 bhp.

    Also, the Plymouth Fury was still strictly a performance car in 1958, with a 318 dual-quad (290 bhp) standard. and a Golden Commando 350 dual-quad (305 bhp) optional. For 1960, 2 Sonoratic Commando cross-ram engines were optional in Plymouths, a 361 (310 bhp) and a 383 (330 bhp). And the Desoto Adventurer for 1958 still produced 345 bhp, though through a 361 dual-quad. For 1959, the Adventurer had a 383 dual-quad that generated 350 bhp; it also had an optional 383 cross-ram for 1960, though it was only rated at 330 bhp.

    So, yes, Mopar pretty much ignored the 1957 factory racing ban.

    Also, Dodge had a 350 Ram Fire 4-bbl engine rated at 295 bhp. I don't know if this was the same block as the Plymouth 350, but I'd guess that it was; given that Dodge and DeSoto each offered the 361 in 1958, it's possible that this was when corporate engine sharing started at Chrysler. 1958 seems to have been the only model year that Mopar offered a 350 engine.

    And I recall seeing a 1958 Dodge with a 392 Hemi in the street-level museum annex at the Riverside casino in Laughlin roughly 20 years ago. I don't know if this was factory original, dealer-installed, or an after-market conversion.
     

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