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This Just In...(Revision to Merger Agreement € / $)

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by 77 Monaco Brougham, Sep 14, 2020 at 5:53 PM.

  1. HotCarNut

    HotCarNut Defender of Reality
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    Absolutely no surprise given the COVID impact. Smart move to preserve cash along with both companies cutting their ordinary dividends. I still think the cost savings/synergy number is complete bullpoopies.
     
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  2. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Yup. Basically the same deal but with far less money given to FCA stockholders by FCA beforehand, so they have more money on hand when they merge (and because FCA value fell more than PSA).

    I will agree that the synergy number is probably excessive, though maybe not if part of the plan is to finally kill Lancia and Alfa Romeo (Chrysler is vulnerable, too).

    Be funny if Dodge is eliminated and sells cars under the Ram brand ;) Ram Challenger, coming to you! Or maybe a new Hemi brand. Or, heck, maybe DS gets wound up as well. None of us know the profitability of any of these brands except, to a degree, Maserati. Could DS be sold as Chrysler? As Masy (a mini-Maserati)? As Alfa Romeos?

    Okay, probably DS stays on...
     
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  3. jorisr

    jorisr Well-Known Member

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    Yes basically the same deal with less money given to FCA shareholders but also the faurecia shares held by PSA will not be spun off to the PSA stakeholders. That stake will remain in the merged company (Stellantis). In other words the FCA shareholders miss out on a payout of € 2,5 billion but it stays on the balance sheet of the company they own. But in return the value of the stake in Faurecia is added to that company.
    I've read that stake is valued at this moment at aprox. € 3 billion. All in all i think the FCA shareholders have done rather well.
    I don't see this reflecting FCA doing worse than PSA since Covid-19.
    Off course the value of Faurecia is subject to change and the 2,5 billion is a fixed value so we will see how this works out.
    In the end i think this change makes for a more valuable company for the future.
     
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  4. Chrysler UK

    Chrysler UK Member

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    Lancia is doomed to meet its demise. However I still think Alfa Romeo & Chrysler are both saveable, even if Stellantis is unlikely to do what is needed to save both of them.

    Might as well reintergrate Ram Trucks into Dodge under those circumstances.

    Considering that both Chrysler & Alfa Romeo are struggling themselves, it would make a lot of sense to kill off DS in favour of both of these brands. Because if you are going to sell cars in the same segment that all 3 compete in, you might as well do it with brands that have at least some built-in pedigree rather than build it up from nothing.
     
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  5. LeeRyder

    LeeRyder Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't it make more sense to delay it for 1 fiscal year?
     
  6. jorisr

    jorisr Well-Known Member

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    Delay what? The payout of the special dividend?
    That has to happen before the merger happens, afterwards it would be distributed among all the shareholders of Stellantis not only the shareholders of FCA.

    In this new agreement, the FCA shareholders get a special dividend payout of 3 billion in stead of 5.5 billion + Half of PSA's stake in Faurecia if that is spun off in the future to Stellantis shareholders.
    Plus for now they will own half of a more valuable entity with a better balance sheet. I think this works out better for them in the end. I obviously don't know what the extra 2.5 billion was bookmarked for and that could mean this is a worse deal than the
    original deal for the FCA shareholders.
     
    #7 jorisr, Sep 15, 2020 at 5:28 AM
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020 at 5:40 AM
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  7. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    That part is not true. One of the more persistent lies.

    It's very easy to check.
     
  8. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    Faurecia makes some nice interiors, one of the best in the business.

    European part of FCA Italy including Italian developed Jeeps have Faurecia interiors.
     
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  9. codypet

    codypet Well-Known Member

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    DS is what? 10 years old? What's it's reputation compared to Lancia and AR? Lancia has had 1 unique model during DS's whole existence. Alfa is known for beautiful looking cars that don't hold up well. I guess Chrysler to a less extent (Chrysler's seem to look more elegant and hold up slightly better). I could see Lancia, and DS pulled in favor of AR and Chrysler. Where does Puegeot fit in all of this?
     
  10. tabutler

    tabutler Active Member

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    I don't know much about the Europian market, but isn't Peugeot, Citroën, and Opel all mainstream brands? DS was started as a premium brand for PSA Group.

    I always thought Opel was a near-premium brand like Buick or Acura. I was in Europe for work last fall and was surprised to find out that they looked at Opel as an entry-level brand.
     
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  11. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    DS does go back, to Daimler (after it belonged to Daimler-Benz in one of those weird things), as I recall - without having checked anywhere but memory.

    I don't see any of those four having a really valuable heritage. As codypet said, Lancia’s long been on life-support and its last models all failed; Alfa is indeed known for well sculpted cars that don't hold up well; Chrysler is known in the US largely for bailouts despite Allpar's attempts to show a much more illustrious history. Dodge is a mainstream brand. Opel's been mainstream as long as I can remember despite GM's attempt to make it a mildly premium, sporty brand some time ago.

    Imperial could really work now of all times. DS, though, has one advantage: nobody can tell what country it's from, by looking at the name.

    There comes a point when you pull everything together and ask what makes sense globally. Do you try selling the same car under three premium brands depending on the region, altering the front end to meet your needs? Not that hard; it's mainly plastic. DS with Alfa grille in Italy and Brazil, with Chrysler grille in North America and Australia and New Zealand, with DS grille wherever DS is already sold; and other countries flip a coin or look at the history. Or do you start over and try rebranding DS to Chrysler, or to Imperial, or to some other name you haven't thought of yet, integrating it with the abandoned Chrysler minivan in Europe, etc? (What a time to drop the Voyager, just before Pacifica debuts.)

    FCAU stock shot up with this news, by the way. I thought about re-entering but not at $13. It was $12 yesterday and I kicked myself for missing 4 pm. 52 week range is $6 to $13.15 - we're at the one year high. I'll wait for algos and investors to forget about today's news, it'll fall with the next bad news ;)

    PS> stock market is crazy high overall... I think there's a lot more inflation than the gov't is admitting to.
     
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  12. ShawnP

    ShawnP Active Member

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    Which lasts longer?

    DS or ALLPAR?
     
  13. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    DS has no connection with Daimler in modern times. It was created by PSA as a mainstream-premium brand sometime between 2009 and 2015, depending on where you live (PSA tried the idea in China first, then Europe). It started as a single model under the Citroën brand, the DS3, in 2009, largely as a response to the success FIAT had had with the 500 in 2007, but is now a brand in its own right.

    The DS name was intended to recall the famous Citroën DS of 1955: one of the world’s most technically advanced vehicles at the time, and still an iconic vehicle in the history of cars. That model name was chosen for no other reason than it sounded like déesse [day-ESS], the French word for “goddess”. The irony of the revival of DS was that the primary need for a new brand was because PSA had spent the previous two decades eroding the value of the existing Citroën brand by making it the cheap-and-cheerful equivalent to the mainstream Peugeot.
     
  14. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure how well known the DS brand name is outside of Southern Europe, but it would seem to me that expanding international awareness and recognition for a relatively new brand would take a tremendous amount of time, work, and money to accomplish......While legacy beloved brands with rich and storied histories like Chrysler, Lancia, and Alfa-Romeo are killed off.

    Besides, at least for me, France has only ever had one Goddess...the dearly departed Fabulous Josephine Baker.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ggb_wGTvZoU


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48DkJqE30rQ
     
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  15. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Ah, I thought it was named after the Daimler DS420... I see Daimler ended up with Jaguar. I knew it was somewhere totally not German but forgot where. I also see that Daimler was partly founded by Gottlieb Daimler, and is not associated with Mercedes in any way. Not the only time more than one company was based on the same founder.

    I wonder if anyone would buy a Hudson luxury car ;) or a modern Packard, though I think someone else has the right to that. DS does not seem like a lux-car name though I guess the cars themselves establish the name, no matter how artificial it might be (Infiniti, Lexus, Acura).

    I don't know how loved you can call Alfa, Chrysler, and Lancia if so few people buy their cars. Chrysler has never really been a luxury brand (though I guess DS isn't either, really). Lancia would be my first thought but they flubbed it so badly last time, it seems to be unlikely to return, and I hope they are done with the “Italian = upmarket” meme at FCA. I could see using Maserati but it would destroy Maserati's ability to sell their traditional $$$ cars. Maybe. The Mercedes 190 didn't hurt Mercedes too badly... though the Caddy Cavalier killed their aura...
     
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  16. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

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  17. Bogenator

    Bogenator Member

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    I could see Chrysler disappearing, they only have the Pacifica/Grand Caravan and the 300. With that I'd see that I'd see the Grand Caravan name survive and go back to Dodge. As for the 300, I think with the updated platform you'd have an Alfa Romeo offering in North America. The only way I see Chrysler surviving is if with the merger there are shared platforms that can give Chrysler some new offerings, but you might as well put them under Dodge, Jeep, or Alfa.
     
  18. Stéphane Dumas

    Stéphane Dumas Well-Known Member

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    Or the Ram brand return's under Dodge's umbrella."Dodge Promaster" still sound good to my ears and I think there's still lots of people who refer Ram as Dodge Ram after all these years.

    As fir Alfa-Romeo, remember the time when the late Ferdinand Piech wanted to see Fiat selling Alfa to VW? I guess with the volkswagate/dieselgate, that plan is now stored in the mouthballs.
     
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  19. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    I think Alfa got it's shot here. The brand may stay, along with Maserati, but both will be low volume. If all the brands are to be continued, they will be continued in their perspective regions. Fiat, Italy, South America. Peugeot, France, other parts of Europe, and the middle East. Chrysler, Dodge, North America. Opel, Germany and any other parts of Europe not covered by the other two. Most will be the same underneath, with bodies to match brands.
     
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