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This Just In...(Revision to Merger Agreement € / $)

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by 77 Monaco Brougham, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. Chrysler UK

    Chrysler UK Active Member

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    Would you suggest that they should be replaced by Chrysler's (or in my proposal Imperials) or be joinly replaced by a single Jeep Compass model?
     
  2. gforce2002

    gforce2002 Well-Known Member

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    Either, both, or neither - it does not matter to me, and I’m sure FCA/Stell/\ntis couldn’t care less about what I would suggest. I’m only stating that in their current form neither vehicle is appropriate for a brand which would be promoting itself as “premium”.
     
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  3. Chrysler UK

    Chrysler UK Active Member

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    That is true, although it should not stop someone from suggesting what said management could do better.

    Agreed. Likewise I would prefer to replace the Compass & Rengade with a Giorgio-Based model that is roughtly the same size of the (KL) Jeep Cherokee*

    *Considering that I would prefer to see the WL74 (Grand Cherokee 5-Seater) replace the (KL) Jeep Cherokee & the WL75 (Grand Cherokee 7-Seater) replace the (WK2) Jeep Grand Cherokee
     
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  4. pumadog

    pumadog Well-Known Member

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    No, not at all. And I'm not saying that they are identical. But they are close enough to share their bones, with differentiation at design, features, tuning, price point. Took them long enough to finally share the same architecture with Giorgio.

    Maybe. Fiat Lancia? Or Fiat 500 Lancia as the noble opposite to Abarth?

    Is it? AFAIK there's no RAM for commercial use in Europe, so I left it out. Just special imported trucks for American pickup fans. Similar to the Charger/Challenger imports.
     
  5. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    Electrification costs $$, so how premium is defined is changing. The Renegade and Compass will receive other upgrades along with available PHEV and maybe even BEV options in the future. An A-segment Jeep is either dead or on the shelf for now. The A-segment is disappearing in Europe because when cost of the new emissions are met, the vehicle is no longer at an entry level price. The new Fiat 500e points to the future of city cars. I suspect the Centoventi will become the new entry level even though it may sell among fossil fueled vehicles with lower price tags in some markets. If many of the Centoventi's customization features make it to reality, there will still be room for a new Lancia version on that platform. The Lancia brand has a thorny path because recent attempts at badge engineering didn't work.

    There will probably not be an exclusive "electric" brand among the SA empire. First the EMP2 and CMP platforms from PSA allow for electrification options from MHEV to full BEV. Those two platforms will dominate the product lineup. Many of the FCA vehicles, which don't use those platforms, have or will soon have PHEV options. I doubt there will be any brand which doesn't offer a plugin model.

    That said, most people don't buy Tesla vehicles due to environmental concerns, they buy the Tesla because it's cool. Tesla cars a zoomy and fast. They aren't "square" in all senses of that word. So, IMO, there will be a need for a Tesla fighter among the brands, and the DS will probably be the best pick for that mission.

    Between the Acela corridor and the left coast lies a vast uncharted wilderness. It is populated by unsophisticated barbarians who still purchase crude domestic branded vehicles. Let them buy Chryslers and Dodges. The enlightened among us, who can spell and pronounce Peugeot and use sophisticated terms like "avant-garde", will purchase DS, Peugeot, Citroen, and Alfa Romeo. Peugeot will be tailored for and also be considered avante-garde. Chrysler branded vehicles will use the same platform, but the styling will reflect the desires of the rubes living in the hinterlands.
     
  6. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    You left out drinking horrible over-roasted (burned) French coffee, dressing entirely in black...including black fingernail polish and toenail polish...composing bad music, and writing even worse poetry.:p:D
     
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  7. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    First off, someone will need to remind Auburn Hills that there is still a Chrysler brand. I'm not even sure they consider a minivan a Chrysler, it's just a minivan to them.
     
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  8. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    At this point, I would consider the ending of the Chrysler brand a humane...(dare I say merciful?)...act of euthanasia.
     
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  9. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Chrysler has been treated exactly the same way as Alfa (until recently) and Lancia - kept in reserve by limiting it to one or two cars, until they had money and time to do it right. It's actually a clever strategy (as many of SM's were) since they keep the trademark and memory alive until they can do right by it.

    Burt Bouwkamp once wrote a memo, signed by heads of several departments and sent up to the President of Chrysler Corporation (I believe in the early 1970s), where he pointed out that trying to match GM and Ford car-for-car was bankrupting the company and resulting in quality gaffes and engineering shortfalls. Chrysler simply could not keep up. The group suggested that they focus on what they did well and get that perfect, and grow organically on that until they had the strength to re-enter other segments. It was a smart plan and would have greatly helped Chrysler - which ended up doing just that, when they were forced to, eventually.

    Bouwkamp and the others also, separately, supported minivan development as well as they could. The main excuse of the executive suite for not doing it was not just the cost, which was very substantial (until the K-car paved its way), but "GM and Ford don't have one." At the time, product planning was basically spying on GM and Ford and then entering whatever segments they were in - a strategy which you could argue started at least as far back as 1961.

    In any case, I think that's why Chrysler is not getting any new product. The Portal and Grand Commander, whose identity has bounced between Dodge and Chrysler repeatedly, may also have been dropped due to inability to compete. Better not to launch a car you can't sell, no?

    Anyone who restricts BEVs and hybrids to an "electric brand" these days is nuts. The future of performance is electric and hybrid. Look at the lengths Dodge has to go through to beat Teslas at the track. Sure, Teslas cost more than the sale price, but once you're at Hellcat levels, the cost of the two cars is probably similar. VW won't stay behind for long and GM has been at this for quite a while, too - the Hummer is shaping up to be quite the coup, and the “Mustang” crossover (I wonder how much of that is licensed from Rivian?) is, too.

    Disclaimer: our cars are a 300C, ProMaster, and Dart. All gasoline powered. And I will not engage in insults to either coast or to the parts of the country in between. There are precious few places that are all red or all blue.
     
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  10. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    Dave, I agree to a point, but there is zero reason why they couldn't and should have a CUV Chrysler built at Windsor to compliment the minivan. It's seems to be a no brainer. Especially if it's built off the van underpinnings and would share many parts. The vans are class leading, no reason the CUV couldn't be as well. They hedge their bets this way. Both markets are covered. Unimaginable.
     
    #90 Adventurer55, Sep 22, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  11. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    Dave, there is no black and white everything is greyscale. You are right in saying that very few places are all red or blue. The fact is people are different and have different tastes, no matter where they live. This will allow for different market targets among the brands. Chrysler has tended to be a conservative brand. (Defining conservative not politically, but socially.) I don't know if "social" is the right word either, by this I mean fashion and style. It is possible the French brands and Chrysler will bump up against each other price-wise in our market. A conservatively styled Chysler will cater to a different demographic than a Peugeot with leading edge appearance.

    Badge engineering isn't a substitute for market focus and styling should never interupt practicality.
     
  12. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    Conservative has not been in the best interest of Chrysler. When they became conservative, their sales most often suffered. 40s and early 50s, conservative. Late fifties not in the least. The 60s became conservative for a time, but by 69 with the fuselage cars, not so much. The 70s and 80s were a time of follow GM, which led to disaster in 80 and again by 1990. LH cars etc weren't conservative and neither was the 300. I have no clue and I doubt anyone else does about whether Peugeot comes to America, but a new beautifully styled Chrysler, (fill in the blank) of good quality is what the brand desperately needs.
     
  13. gforce2002

    gforce2002 Well-Known Member

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    I have to disagree on it being a clever strategy to keep brands as mere placeholders. I don't know how many people I've talked to that have actually thought that Chrysler had already been discontinued. And who could blame them, really. Market mindshare is invaluable and if and when these brands ever bring new product, without that mindshare it's going to be greeted with an enormous shrug. And the longer it's left to wither on the vine, the most investment in time and money that it will require to be made a viable brand again. I just don't see that happening.
     
  14. gforce2002

    gforce2002 Well-Known Member

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    I agree completely, though I will say that more adventurous styling was what enabled them to separate themselves from the pack where people might forgive their usually iffy quality/reliability reputation. When they did boring cars, people were more likely to buy other makers' boring, but more reliable, cars.
     
  15. chcharlie

    chcharlie Member

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    not sure how u new my alternate ego name, but dont kneed ur snooty avanti-gard vehicles in mid US! signed, Rube
     
  16. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    The longer a brand is kept limping along, the greater the eventual effort to revive it.

    And even then, once revived, what in FCA’s history makes one think they will keep the brand revival going? So far it’s mostly a whack a mole strategy.
     
  17. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    It also makes a costly job even worse. Because, there lies ahead segments they once occupied that would love to return to, (Dakota) and others that need updating (Charger etc.)
     
  18. Stéphane Dumas

    Stéphane Dumas Well-Known Member

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  19. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to FCA's record in the areas of decision making and execution...I would say that "Whack-A-Mole" is definitely NOT their game!:p:D
     
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  20. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

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    No, but it does seem to be their default method of quality control.
    did-i-say-that.jpg
     
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