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This Just In...(Revision to Merger Agreement € / $)

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by 77 Monaco Brougham, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. Chrysler UK

    Chrysler UK Active Member

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    Even if Ford & GM end up under foreign ownership, Tesla would still be "American" Owned.

    Now granted it would not exactly be a good thing from an American perspective, but its still a better siutation than any European Nation that isn't France, Germany or the Netherlands (kind of). None of which (bar those 3) have any domestically-owned carmakers of any significant scale.

    Considering the types of people that populate both Congress & the White House; for the right "price" they would likely grant approval.

    Chrysler does own Jeep & RAM however, which both have a very different reputation in terms of appeal.

    Personally if I was running the United States Government; I would be pushing (and financially backing) General Motors & Ford to merge with Volkswagen. While also making sure that the resulting "Auto Union" (1) carmaker ends up being headquarted in the United States and that said carmaker moves Corporate, Manufacturing and R&D operations from Mainland Europe to North America (with the purpose of creating jobs & knowhow in the United States).

    Because if I was in that position, I would want to make sure that at least 1 American-Based Carmaker (other than Tesla) would surrive into the BEV era.

    (1) Which would be the best name (in my opinion) for the resulting carmaker.
     
  2. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, the government forcing Ford and GM to merge with VW, then move the headquarters to NA. That will never happen, for so many reasons that it would take me the rest of the evening to list. And I have to work tomorrow. But I will list two reasons. One the government, current, or upcoming, regardless of who's in charge won't pursue it. And the second, the German government won't allow VW to move to NA.
     
    AlfaCuda and freshforged like this.
  3. Chrysler UK

    Chrysler UK Active Member

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    The thing is though; if they continue to make cars, they are still a carmaker no matter what marketing terms Ford would like to use to describe themselves.

    And how's that any different from leasing a car?
     
  4. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    You're being very greedy by not sharing whatever it is you're smoking with the rest of us!:p:D
     
    Tony K likes this.
  5. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

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    When you lease a car you're autonomous, and not the car. With a mobility service there will be a vehicle available, but not necessarily the same model every time. Expect limitations with the service area, so lets hope the Grey Dog survives the pandemic.:eek:
     
  6. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    VW and Ford are highly leveraged. Their combined debt alone could be an issue, no?
     
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  7. Chrysler UK

    Chrysler UK Active Member

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    Nope; rather encouraging them (and giving them financial support) to merge with Volkswagen as part of the Government's Industrial Stratagy. On the condition they move Corporate, R&D & Manufacturing Assets from Europe to North America post-merger.

    I am perfectly aware that Biden (assuming he is the Next President) doesn't support my "Auto Union" proposal; however if the Americans want to retain a domestically based carmaker in the Post-BEV age (1), they would be inclined to support this proposal, especially since it would help create jobs in the United States.

    (1) i.e. one that has a commanding presence in North American Automobile Market and has a strong presence in the European, Latin America & Asia-Pacific Automobile Markets.

    Unless they buy a majority shareholding the resulting "Auto Union" Carmaker, they would be legally unable to. Likewise even if they could, do they really want to take on the United States Government?

    I am aware that my viewpoints are unpopular in some quarters, however if one looks at the points I have made on that post (both openly & implied):
    • Ford & General Motors need to merge with a European Based Carmaker such as Volkswagen (Which is a better option than Renault) to survive in the Post-BEV era. Since making profits in North America alone isn't enough to pay for the costs of moving into said era, let alone to sucessfully compete in said era.
    • Volkswagen needs to merge with Ford to establish a proper North America presence and improve their margins in Europe.
    • Later down the road from a Volkswagen-Ford deal, it would make sense for Volkswagen to buy General Motors to help enable their presence in North America to become as strong as their presence in Europe.
    • It's in the United States best interests to have at least one domestically based carmaker that can compete in the Post-BEV era. Now since Wall Street is not going to make that possible (1); the United States Government might as well make it possible, just like it saved the industry a decade ago.
    Would many actually disagree with them?

    (1) Since they are too busy valuing Tesla at $420 Billion and would have allowed GM, Ford & Chrysler go out of business back in 2008
     
    #127 Chrysler UK, Oct 1, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
  8. Chrysler UK

    Chrysler UK Active Member

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    Thank you for explaining this to me. Although I would point out that from the way I see it, its a worse version of leasing.

    It would; but a Volkswagen (1) carmaker that includes Ford (and thus is making more money in Europe & North America) would be better able to deal with those debts compared to Volkswagen at present. Mainly because the profit margins in Europe for Volkswagen (with Ford) would be better than what both Volkswagen & Ford are currently able to achieve.

    (1) Ford cannot deal with their current debt levels as a standalone company.
     
    77 Monaco Brougham likes this.
  9. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    Chrysler UK:

    Since you're still kinda new here, it might be helpful for me to tell you just a little bit about myself.

    There are times when my sense of humor can seem somewhat caustic...somewhat dark...usually skeptical...and always cynical.

    In no way do I mean to offend anyone...including you...with my wacked out sense of humor.

    I suppose you could say that my sense of humor was largely developed, shaped, and influenced by the "comedic icons" of my youth.....Alan Alda and Bea Arthur.;)
     
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  10. Chrysler UK

    Chrysler UK Active Member

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    It's ok, I was aware that you where joking. It's just that I wanted to make it clear what the reasons where behind those viewpoints.

    Regardless, I can understand why you like Alan Alda and Bea Arthur...;)
     
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  11. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    This is the ONE thing about the current state of FMC that I think does not get nearly enough press coverage / financial community attention.

    I'm not sure the exact number right this minute...but last I heard...FMC's total debt was somewhere north of US $170 Billion.

    And...Government Motors......OOPS!......I mean General Motors isn't all that far behind FMC.

    THIS is the proverbial "8000 Pound Pink Elephant" in the room!:eek:
     
    Chrysler UK likes this.
  12. Chrysler UK

    Chrysler UK Active Member

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    It's always seemed a bit strange to me.

    It's $175 Billion (1) according to Ford's own accounts.

    (1) A Look Into Ford's Debt (at https://www.benzinga.com/news/20/07/16872700/a-look-into-fords-debt )

    The high debt levels of both Ford & General Motors provide the main reason to why I think the American Government will have to bail out both companies in the long run.
     
    77 Monaco Brougham likes this.
  13. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    That might be a very tall order given the generally surly mood of the American public these days

    GM has already been bailed out once, and the entity that used to be Chrysler Corporation bailed out twice. Is there the political will to drive down this road again?

    Whichever way the US Federal Government decides on this.... a significant portion of the American public will be highly displeased...to say the very least.
     
    Chrysler UK likes this.
  14. codypet

    codypet Well-Known Member

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    I think Spin is one of the weakest scooter rental companies out there. Lime is clearly ahead, especially with it connection to Uber now.
     
  15. 68RT

    68RT Well-Known Member

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    I am seeing some backlash by cities regarding scooter injuries. Dallas has removed all of them. Many companies have abandoned cities too. Does not look like it has been a great business plan.
     
  16. codypet

    codypet Well-Known Member

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    As someone who does charging for one of them as basically a small cash grab, there's very little money in it for me (I have a paid off car and live very close to the city), and I know the company itself is barely scraping by. I don't know how these people with full size trucks charging can afford it. (Someone out there collecting had a relatively new Ram Rebel)
     
  17. 68RT

    68RT Well-Known Member

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    They pay you so little because they can. There seem to be quite a few out there that actually compete to gather the scooters. A Rebel doing it is most likely has a cash flow pproblem. Real depreciation would eat up any profits unless he has a really good CPA to write things off.
     
  18. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    Dockless systems like these end up as a new form of sidewalk trash. We've known for decades that travel patterns aren't circular, and people move in one direction in the morning, and another direction in the evening. The only systems that work are the ones that use docks, and have people on staff to distribute the bikes/scooters back to places of high demand. That costs money, though, and all of these tech-bro startups running these schemes got their funding on a fantasy business-model where revenues pour in without operational expenditure.
     
    ScramFan likes this.
  19. Chrysler UK

    Chrysler UK Active Member

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    Well unless a Future US Government would want to trigger millions of jobs being lost in the Mid-West & Texas (1) and have said governing party be hated for a whole generation in those parts of the world (2); they would have little choice but to bail out both Ford & GM no matter how much they hate both companies. Although the prospect of "gifting" Tesla (should Ford & GM meet their demise) a de facto monoply on the domestic car industry might push some to support such a bailout as well.

    Regardless I would expect a far greater reorganisation of both companies compared to what they where required to do back in 2008. Hence why I have created the "Auto Union" proposal in relation to such a future bailout, which would (hopefully) prevent the North American Automobile Industry from suffering a similar state again.

    (1) From the demise of Ford, GM and various Automotive Industry Suppliers (that are reliant on Ford & GM), which in turn would impact the likes of Stellantis & Toyota in North America.

    (2) Many of which are Swing States lets not forget.
     
  20. codypet

    codypet Well-Known Member

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    Yea I've calculated it to be $25/night to be really worth my time. Lately I'm hitting double that and I know I'm the one living closest to the city center over all of these guys to keep my overhead low. All these other guys would have to have a much higher break even point.
     

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