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TWO QUESTIONS ABOUT '68 P.W. - - LIKELY MORE TO FOLLOW

Discussion in 'Power Wagon' started by Volunteer, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    Hi. Still taking an inventory of and detailing what I have. First thing on truck I want to do is 'pressure-up' the brake system. I am having discrepancies involving the front and rear flex-hoses. It has become difficult at best to get info - even from internet, regarding part numbers and specs. I should mention, though, that the truck is (or should be) a W-200 model although owner swears it is a 100 with the 200 running-gear (with 8 studs on each wheel). There are (100) 'call-outs' but that doesn't mean much - to me at least. Shouldn't ALL 3/4-tons have the 8-stud wheels? Anyway, I am researching the (flex) hoses and there is much info on the Raybestos site. I have tried various combos (2wd/4wd/100/200) to find the longest hoses available. On this truck, the front hoses attach to side of frame rail (left-side below brass block) and then drop down and fit solidly into wheel cyl. The part I was given is too short. Also, the shocks are not attached and there is nothing inside engine compartment, so the vehicle is likely sitting significantly higher than a 'driver'. I will soon fit the upper shock-t0-frame bracket and measure distance from 'pin to pin'. Then, I will check listings for the extended shock dimension - ie. upper limit of travel, so that I can calculate how much higher the body will potentially rise - until shock is extended, thus limiting any further upward travel, and corresponding travel limit of the flex hose. Hope someone can follow my method of logic.
    But, having said this much, I will get to the point of this first topic question. I need others with the 'sixties' generation of Dodge or Fargo trucks - ANY MODELS - to get underneath each and every one to examine and measure (his or her) front flex hoses. I want to know how each is attached to frame side and to wheel side and what is total length, within 1/4", of the FLEXIBLE (rubber) portion. The ones I've seen listed, so far, range from about 16 to 23 inches (over-all) length, but obtaining such hoses is an adventure all to itself.
    Last week I was looking at (very sad) '66? W-300 (duallies in rear) flat-deck and it was very 'grubby' in the front wheel areas. One thing that caught my eye was the extra bracket fastened to steering knuckle, about 5 inches inboard of the wheel cylinder, that incorporated an 'adaptor' pipe (like the regular metal brake tubing) and allowed use of that much shorter of flex hose length. Most of the pictures and specs. of the various flex-hoses display common ends (thread patterns) but this (W-300) hose would have to be unique as far as the (brake side) fitting goes.
    The rear flex hose should not be any concern because the fittings are same as the front and length is not as critical.
    SECOND question is about the (manual) steering box. Does anyone know if there is a 'rebuild' kit available - with (hopefully) seals, bearings and (cross-shaft) bushing? Thanks, and I do love to type. o_O
     
  2. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    First:
    Dodge built "Heavy Half's'" which were 8 lugs, so if the VIN tag on the door post (which is also stamped into the frame over the front wheel location) Starts with a "11" it is a D 100, if it starts with a "12" it's a D200.
    The third digit will tell you what engine it had, 118 would be a 100 with an 8 cylinder, 116 wold be the slant six.
    If your truck is a W, (4wheel drive) it will start with 21 for a W100, 22 for a W200.
    So 218 or 216, or 228 or 226 accordingly.

    300 Series Sewptlines had little in common with 100-200 Series trucks.
    Pep Boys of all places once carried Raybestos rebuilt kits, the runner lines are unfortunately OEM and not readily available, but NAPA and others usually have them in their "Vintage" parts books. Nearly all auto parts stores dropped their books in 2000-2001 and the computer systems only went back to 1972, but some small mom and pop NAPA might still have the vintage paper books with the part numbers needed. Those numbers can be cross referenced to the modern day part number, unless the part was discontinued.
     
    #2 MoparNorm, Mar 28, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
    Shane Estabrooks likes this.
  3. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info, Norm. I will have to look at VIN tag since truck had a 'frame-off' and now is painted . It is difficult locating correct brake hoses based on 'numbers' but I am ultimately going with correct lengths. Once I measure extended length of front shocks, I can duplicate the maximum upward travel of suspension so as to confirm minimum safe length of said hoses. Back - center is easier. I will have to 'cross-reference' also to obtain (suitable) right-rear brake cable - to mate with bracket attached to rear of front cable. Unless, of course, someone has a vehicle description OR part number for me. thanks.
     
  4. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    Now an Update to my last posting. I got a photo of the Data Tag. It clearly shows that this is a W-100 model - (with the 8-stud wheels). It also indicates the N.P. 435 trans. and Dana 60 (4.10) rear. I already know it's a (tight) Power-Lok.
    The Serial No. is W1J2J15751. Reminder that this is a FARGO - built in Windsor, and possibly has unique (to Canada) serial no.?
    I ordered the (Raybestos) hoses, P.N. (BH-4960) for the front. They are listed as being 24.68" long - compared to the (correct) -8116's which are too short at 20.25". End fittings are same. I will use one of the shorter hoses for the rear/center. Still need the right/rear brake cable - about 5.5 to 6 ft. long and possibly the front cable - that attaches to lever under dash. Any ideas or links? I cannot find any (older) listings but possibly newer (seventies) trucks? I'm also going to have 'fun', I suspect, with trying to find a tranny mount/insulator - as one is broken in half.

    Almost forgot. www.cancraft.com in Langley, BC. is helping with rebuild parts for the steering box. The cross-shaft (brass) bush could be difficult as it has to be custom made to fit. I sent (Steve) the exact measurements - to .001" and will see if they can do it - without having the box in their possession. I'll let you know how it transpires.
     
    #4 Volunteer, Mar 31, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  5. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    Yes, the serial number doesn't completely follow the sequence, but Dodge never made it easy.
    From your VSN (not the VIN) I can tell it was a W100, Canadian Built the "2" doesn't follow protocol, however the next number is interesting, as J= 383, that would have been a beast!
     
  6. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    IMG_1282.jpg

    I tried to Upload the Data-Tag photo but, as I suspected, it is too large - (2.84Mb!). Hopefully I can get my hands on it in a day or two and take my own (small) photo. The S.O.N. shows JW147675.
    I wish people would adjust their camera resolutions to (well) under 1.o Mb. I see Allpar limits to 135! - but, the photo above shows as 367 Kb. I wish the pics would 're-size' automatically.
     
  7. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    Well, still no Data Tag but no matter. I am still searching out (smaller) items and having little success. I went to www.sweptline.org and will find out how 'educated' their members are. I need to hire someone to sit by computer as it is now 11:15 (PDT) and sunny and approaching 50- F. outside and much to do prior to clouding over and other priorities. My local parts sources are helpful - but only to a point. If I go to sites such as Rockauto or Parts Geek (which will NOT ship to Canada), I can at least get 'name-brand' listings and part numbers. Then I give to local suppliers - sometimes successful but usually not. I envy anyone living 'next-door' to Year-One or Layson's - etc. I re-set my camera to the smallest size resolution, so I won't have to take future photos all over again.

    Now the news that (dana44) has been waiting for - - - - - :rolleyes: I purchased the 'mystery' A-body I referred to - - a 'one-owner' (H-code) 1970 Swinger 340 - column auto, with P.S., P.B., 8-3/4 with 3.23 and tight sure-grip! - for $4500. (CDN). It was in BC all it's life. The (OEM) argent rallyes are being prepped to go on my Signet.
    But, it is not all 'good news' as the car was neglected - despite being unlicensed since 1993. I may post a topic on A-body page - repeat - - may.
     
  8. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    Howdy again. Not sure if I mentioned that everything that could be removed from this truck - - was. The wiring was all crammed into a couple of large plastic pails. Some pieces/sections were duplicates - from '66 parts truck. I am attempting to re-install harnesses under dash but, nothing labelled and I am cleaning and otherwise detailing best I can (or need to). Some segments on YouTube are helpful - to a point. For example, the Emergency Flasher switch has multiple blade connectors - - all singles. I do not have any schematics. Ideas?
    The dash cables are another nightmare. I have photos where most go but (the dash controls) are varied by years and models. There are two large (about 1-1/8") horizontal holed directly above and close to accel. bracket. Ideas?
    There are three bulkhead connectors thru firewall - two just left of clutch master cyl. and one to right of accel. bracket. Does anyone with similar truck have info about which wires should come thru each hole? ie. I suspect the right-most connector handles ignition / charging systems. On the left side, which of the two (positioned up - down) contains the main wiring (to ignition switch and/or ammeter?) Ideas?
    Yes, there may be a Link - even right here on Allpar - but I am hopeful someone can enlighten me - - out of the good of their heart. Oh, and still seeking (11-inch) course-splined disc. OEM has no markings. thanks.
     
  9. pt006

    pt006 Active Member

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    Volunteer, If your truck is a 383 [beast], the Chrysler part no. is 2516 084 for the clutch plate. It is listed as a 12" clutch. The same clutch plate is used for W-100, W-200, and W-300 with the 383 engine. I'd think an 11" clutch plate would do the job.

    Unique way to clean the instrument panel. Did you use the 'reverse spin' cycle to get the odometer to turn backwards?
     
    Shane Estabrooks likes this.
  10. pt006

    pt006 Active Member

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    Volunteer; International Harvester might be a source for the clutch plate. They made some pretty rugged trucks.
     
  11. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    Thank-you for response. There are clutch discs out there. But, for reasons unknown, every parts-source outlet I've contacted (approx. 12), they all list the incorrect (fine-spline) disc for the pre-'69 models. I did find one source on Ebay - and there are likely others.
    The outlet I ordered from is based out of Central Point, Oregon. The Ebay store is dctruckparts. Now, that's the good news - - - the bad news is that the price is $95. (U.S.) plus, $55. to ship to B.C. That would work out to at least $190. (CDN) - plus two taxes and possibly a 'handling charge' - once parcel crosses the border. We won't know total cost until Canada Post (flunky) knocks on door.
    At the end of the day - so to speak - we are still going to have to find a pressure-plate and release bearing. Looks like only way to do that is to order complete kit from on-line supplier and then find a good home for (incorrect) fine-splined disc. "Hello, Partsmonkey?"

    I should state again that this is a W-100 model with Dana60 rear and 44-front and 318 (orig.) engine. I'm a bit confused with the second part of your reply - regarding speedo. 'Tongue and cheek?' - or sage advice? (If the latter, I did in fact 'jiggle' the odo back to zero - see photo in Post #6 above - as this truck is being remanufactured from front to back).
     
  12. dana44

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    Well, glad you found the clutch and all that, almost have to think a road trip would be both fun and cheaper than having it shipped to you, wish I was closer to help getting it to you. As far as the odometer goes, I see absolutely no problem with moving it back to all zeros based on the fact it is a nose to tail rebuild, I have and will do the same thing when I do projects like this. Why start with miles on a completely rebuilt vehicle?
     
  13. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, as always, for your advice. It would be good indeed to embark on a 'mystical auto-parts' journey. But, alas, the price of fuel has taken the fun and possibility away. (now up to about $5.60 a CDN gallon) - which is nearly what it was when crude oil was way up to $110. (or higher) per barrel. *sigh*.
    I also forgot to mention, for those who want to search Ebay, is that the section was Vintage Car and Truck Parts - clutches and the name-brand of (said) disc was NORS - p.n. 1933465. They also list for trucks much older.
     
  14. dana44

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    So is this a Canada truck thing, from what you can figure out, or is it just a strange one-off from what is actually listed? Might it also be less expensive to find a correct spline transmission in order to get less expensive, or more easily attainable clutch parts? Didn't realize fuel prices were that high up there, so yeah, the simple roadtrip scenario would not be financially feasible unless there were several car parts with such inflated shipping costs. Still kind of weird you have to reference the States to get the part, especially since the vehicles have been up there for over half a century.
     
    Shane Estabrooks likes this.
  15. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    Uh huh - more of an exercise in futility. The name 'Fargo' never implied anything different from 'Dodge' except primarily the displayed Name-Plates or Call-Outs - - which are also very rare and pricey. One 'seller' on www.sweptline.org is demanding (requesting is nicer word) $150. for one mirror bracket (I'll try to find and post a pic) and (I think) $75. for a single call-out (ie. POWER or WAGON on side of hood - left and right) - which was also discontinued for the '69 model year.
    This truck was not a 'one-off' weirdo. Sweptline has members throughout North America, which ironically makes us ALL (North) Americans. Another topic, though. The general consensus of the responding membership concurs that the pre-'69 NP-435 trannies had (1") course-spline and the laters had the fine. But, as I've posted many times, every available parts listing (except that Ebay source), shows a fine-spline clutch disc - - and that includes (walk-in) chain outlets OR on-line ones. Some, like RockAuto, even list the FARGO - but part numbers consistent with same-year DODGE. This also happened in late sixties with Chevelles and Beaumonts. Yes, just search it.
    Anyway, it is not and never was an issue between countries - and only a reality that (new and used) parts are sometimes difficult to locate - depending on jurisdiction. This is true with many other (obsolete) vehicles. Suppliers in U.S.A. frequently will not ship out of the lower 48 and not much can be done about that. RockAuto itself is a remarkable source - with listings for vehicles many of us have never heard of. But, when sourcing specific item, like (infamous) clutch disc, there are NO listings. However, this and other, such as PartsGeek and even Napa, are great places to 'browse' and obtain various product names, numbers and descriptions. We never had this option available prior to the Internet, but 20 or more years ago, shelves were still stocked with the parts we asked for AND the local salvage yards were teeming with (rare today) mega- used parts. So, we saved on purchasing and shipping. (sigh)
    As far as the gas prices, I remember many threads dealing with unequal and unfair rates between our countries. When crude prices plummeted last year, so did gasoline (retail) prices - but not correspondingly. As I said already, when crude was up to $110. per barrel, I personally paid (up to) $1.39 per litre at the highest. Place like Vancouver were well above $1.60 during same period - due to extra taxes such as Transit. Now, earlier this spring, when crude 'bottomed-out' at (I think) $41. the cost per liter eventually dropped to as low as $.94? - at maybe Costco. Forward to today, with crude now hovering around $52. (as I type this) our regular gas is sitting at $1.25 per liter which converts to about $5.67 per gallon - or $4.53 for the U.S. gallon. www.gasbuddy.com has explanations for every fluctuation.
    Now back on topic. Changing the tranny would definitely be a very logical choice - however, according to (sweptline) members, there was a 'wholesale' change for the '69 model year that (supposedly) involved everything between the flywheel and the rear drive shaft - and that is a lot (of parts and $).
    Now I'd better get off here and start searching for pressure-plate, bearing and (Spicer-type) U-joints.
     
    #15 Volunteer, Jul 9, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2015
  16. pt006

    pt006 Active Member

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    Note that I thought you had a 383 motor in the truck. For a 318 it shows an 11" clutch. See above ---That is the same part no. I came up with [1933 465]. Used in many diff. models. There is also a 'facing' listed for an 11" disc ------------- no. 1266 028. --- 2 required, I think? Your vin number is difficult to decode. These were tough years for understanding what they meant. Maybe a 1968 factory service would help.
     
  17. pt006

    pt006 Active Member

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    Volunteer; No problem changing the mileage on the odometer. I'd have done it myself. You're certainly not trying to deceive anybody.

    From your pic in post #6, the instrument panel came out real sweet. I would have never thought of running it through a washing machine. Can we assume that you used the ---- ahem ---- DASH detergent brand?
     
  18. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    Jeez! I hadn't heard about Dash laundry det. in ages. Do they still make it? Not available here. I'm sitting here enjoying my late-nite mug of Folgers coffee - another fine American brand - (sorry, but decaf.) - only made available soon after 'free-trade' agreement - - Smuckers jam came later. :p
    No, actually the cluster was in pretty decent shape - internally. The outside of (glass) lense was really grubby and I was afraid the inside would be bad. But, once stripping it down, which is pretty easy, I saw right away that it wasn't bad. All the gauges worked before and I expect them to work later. There is a '66 parts cluster and that one is really dirty. Point of note is that the oil gauge is manual - with steel line. Just slow-tedious work to sort things out. Yeh, a '68 truck F.S.M. would be very nice - at the very least to help me with most of the schematics. I'll try to get a pic of that Emergency Flasher switch. Wire colors are likely common (yellow, green) but I need to know how they orient on to the individual blades.
    Thanks again for keeping up your interest level. This reminds me of the 'hey-day' of my Signet thread. :cool::cool:
     
  19. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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  20. Volunteer

    Volunteer Well-Known Member

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    I wanted a couple more pics but too large.
    Anyway, I have choice of two blower switches, but, with no special hole in dash for (separate right-side) vent cable, I suspect I need to use the 'integrated' one.
    The Emerg. flasher switch likely has power 'in' and then two yellow and two green - for all four marker lights? Again a reminder that all the wiring came in a couple of buckets - some from two vehicles.
    The RED hood from '66 parked a mile from here. It displays super-rare (and pricey) 'call-outs'. We need single WAGON - they break and you are typically left with 'WAG'.
    Working on orange truck. Would like to know what passes thru the two horizontal matching holes to left of master cyl. Lots of other single holes but I am eliminating some of those and will try to take photos of red and another green truck in town - owners permitting.
    Still searching for a single, affordable 11-inch B and B - P.P. - but likely will go with complete kit and try to sell (incorrect) fine-spline disc.
     

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