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voltage regulator?

Discussion in 'EEK! - Every Extended-K Car' started by willrappold, Jan 31, 2015.

  1. willrappold

    willrappold Active Member

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    i have 1985 plymouth reliant with the 2.2l tbi engine. My voltage gauge is near red when i drive and car has pulled up code 41, took it to advance and said the alternator is barly putting out enough volts to keep the car running. I know its a 90 amp altenator the car needs because it has the fan on the end of it but i dont know which one, i tried to see if i had a voltage regulator on the firewall or under the hood around motor but i dont see one. Can you help? heres the number off the origonal altentaor if it helps 5226200
     
  2. T-Dot25

    T-Dot25 Active Member

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    Hi, willrappold,

    I had an '85 Plymouth Reliant and from what I remember, my alternator design was built in voltage regulator within the alternator which is why you are not seeing an external regulator. It would be obvious if you had an external as it usually sits on the body passenger side or firewall. Mine was carbureted with an 85 amp so not sure if the TBI requires a 90 amp but I think my Reliant had a 100 amp option, just can't remember.

    You can try to rebuild this alternator with a kit but you are better off getting a rebuilt aftermarket. If that is the part # you can have it cross referenced with a automotive parts dealer. Keep in mind that your battery may be cooked as some alternator issues, prolonged, will kill cells in the battery so be prepared for that possibility.

    That's the best I can say on this. You want to be able to match accordingly a rebuilt alternator on your vehicle to avoid any problems and only upgrade amperage if specifications allow and it is recommended.

    Anyone else want to chime in?

    Goodluck!
     
  3. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    Regulator should be built into the alternator. Best to replace the alternator.
     
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  4. willrappold

    willrappold Active Member

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    but heres whats confusing me about it when i look at the altentaors online the ones that have an external regulator, they have a plasic peice on the back thats what mine looks like but when i look at the internal ones where the wiring hooks up it looks different. I have 3 wires coming off my old altentaor, and not me the internal ones look like they only have spaces for two wires when i look at the pictures.
     
  5. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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  6. T-Dot25

    T-Dot25 Active Member

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    I cross referenced the alternator part number you have given #5226200 to this site with the replacement part number #14495. Please view this site and click on the new part # link:

    http://catalog.remyinc.com/Product/Results?idc=5226200&searchType=quick

    http://catalog.remyinc.com/Product/Details/14495?idc=5226200&searchType=quick

    and here on the technical bulletin:

    https://www1.remyinc.com/webpictures/techtips/TT-593.pdf?_ga=1.260652875.717760847.1422849947

    Because IC is so darn knowledgeable, the alternator is regulated (externally) by the power module. :) You will read this in the technical service bulletin.

    Good news is that you now have a cross reference # so that you can order or obtain the right remanufactured alternator. This is for Remy remanufactured, but that part number will provide you with a cross reference.
     
  7. raymondo112

    raymondo112 Member

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    K car was the 1st vehicle using the computer to ground the alternator, there is no external voltage regulator on a k car period or any chrysler after it. Chrysler computers were also way advanced at this time processing at 56,000 bps ford at 18,500 and GM at 17,000. Thank the ex NASA computer engineer's Chrysler hired in the late 70's that were being laid off by NASA. Also why Daimler Benz was interested in merging with Chrysler, till they spent up all their money. Freakin Germans.
     
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  8. T-Dot25

    T-Dot25 Active Member

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    It is already determined that this model with TBI is controlled via the power module, that would make voltage externally controlled apart from the alternator. It's a matter of language, but also, 1985 models were not all TBI. Mine was carbureted with internal voltage regulation and a 78 amp alternator. There is also a lengthy list of different alternators, 90 amps, for example, that specify amperage, w/internal regulation and external regulation. Note the listings in RockAuto (for willrappold):

    https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,...2412,a,www.google.ca+Search+for+1985+PLYMOUTH

    and listings for external regulation:

    https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,...4884,a,www.google.ca+Search+for+1985+PLYMOUTH

    It is a matter of willrappold doing the necessary cross-referencing to match the correct alternator for that year and whether or not an external voltage regulator was present for their model. It is incredibly important to do as there is more than one listing for a 90 amp w/internal AND external regulation.

    Just sayin'. Peace.
     
  9. raymondo112

    raymondo112 Member

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    Not doubting some of the early K cars having an external voltage regulator, but do know for sure it was a 1st to use the ECM to ground it, it was so revolutionary it was in my textbook in automotive technical school and we talked about it for a while, my instructor said because Chrysler Ecms were so advanced for their time it made simple tests like shorting cylinders to find a mis near impossible as it would compensate for it and could fire it every other round. It was so frustrating to some of those guys they developed a strong hatred towards them. I'm sure the talking dashboards some had didn't help l.o.l.

    It's also why Chrysler vehicles are so hard to tune. Add more fuel to a Chrysler it changes the pulse width of the injectors so it doesn't add more than the factory parameters set it for. Haven't seen anything quite like it, but it led me to appreciate and believe in my Mopar more and more.
     
  10. T-Dot25

    T-Dot25 Active Member

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    Well, that was definitely true for the Holley that was on my Reliant -- I had a lot of trouble with it, could never find a good mechanic to tune it and rebuild properly, and when it did run in top form, it was a machine worth its name. Moral of the story, I miss that car -- lost it in an arson fire. I can't remember whether they designed all the K-cars for police use, but mine had a separate fuse box for that purpose. It was probably a leftover sitting on the lot meant to be a part of a Winnipeg Police Car fleet at the time. No doubt it was a unique car for a unique period that breathed new life into Chrysler and its economy car history.

    As an alternator side story, and not to digress too much from the thread, I remember driving down the highway when all of a sudden the engine compartment is smokin'. I pull into a parking lot whilst laughing hysterically because my alternator was briefly on fire from a whacked bearing. That thing was smokin' and I just couldn't stop laughing. Good times I had with that car -- good times.
     
  11. Duner

    Duner Active Member

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    Way back when, I purchased an 85 Caravelle with 2.2 and it had an external voltage regulator added after the PCM failed to regulate properly. I can't tell you how but I have seen it done cause drove the car some even tho I only wanted a good engine.
    Good Luck!
     
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  12. floridaman2013

    floridaman2013 Active Member

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    Remembering back to the old days, K- bodies didn't get EFI until the 1986 model year, also the first year of "fast burn" engines, better head bolts, higher compression and so on. The Daytona/Lazer models and the Dodge 400/600, New Yorker FWD, had EFI in the firs turbo cars before '86, but not not K cars and Omni/Horizon or S body mini vans. Did somebody convert that engine to TBI or is it really a feedback Holley Carburetor? If so as in Holley, than the regulator is in the computer ECM. If it's a turbo engine, they ran Bosch 90 amp alternators with the regulator in the power module next to the battery. The Power module has a battery temp sensor also built into it to prevent overheating (cooking) the battery. People that took off the fresh air flow from the PCM to the air cleaner hurt this system. Every part that was put on those cars has reason and purpose. Believe me, if Chrysler could get away in saving money as anyone else by not using a particular part they would.
     
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  13. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    The Chrysler brand FWD 2.2L went Bosch TBI in 1984.
    The Dodge/Plymouth K-cars with the Holley TBI showed up around the 1985½ model year as a running change. We started seeing them in January 1985.
    The L-car Omni/Horizon went TBI for 1988.
    Turbos were always EFI.
     
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  14. willrappold

    willrappold Active Member

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    Well i got the alternator to re-place the old one and it charges the battery until a load gets put on it. My old alternator was bad, new one works just not getting vlots disturbed right. So if my voltage regulator is in my PCM or Logic module what are the sister cars to this model so i cant check junkyards? I know for a fact i dont have a sperate regulator anywhere under the hood on my car, i was told it was suppost to be on left front strut tower if i had one, checked everywhere else don't see one. My logic module in the car now has 85 caravelle written on it if that helps.
     
  15. T-Dot25

    T-Dot25 Active Member

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    Here is the rockauto link for '85 Plymouth Caravelle. Click on ECM and see if the module you have is listed or similar to the one you have. You will need the part # listed on your ECM module (look under electrical and find ECM). If the part # is not listed then it needs to be cross-referenced. There is a listing under Caravelle for 2.2 litre L4 and 2.2 Turbo charged. It is imperative you cross-reference for the right part and number:

    http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?tab=catalog

    The module in your vehicle, and where listed under Caravelle, is a sister to your vehicle, so if it worked well before under it's previous condition (Caravelle ECM) then there is no reason why it shouldn't now, unless the ECM is not the issue. Just be absolutely sure you have no voltage regulator and check the wiring including all the grounds. If wires and connections look remotely sketchy, I would replace wire before ECM, first, then test. That's me, and the listings in Rockauto are relatively inexpensive for ECM.

    As far as by - passing the module, it can be done but that would involve adding in an external regulator. Best to just stay with what you know before having someone jiggy the wiring. If there is anything I am forgetting IC and floridaman or anyone then please chime in.

    Good luck!
     
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  16. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    I will bet there is a harness issue long before an ECM issue, especially in a car that old. I'm well acquainted with the type of pin and socket contacts that they used, and they should never be in a car. Molex KK series ramp contacts, guaranteed to fracture as they age, causing intermittents or opens.
     
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  17. floridaman2013

    floridaman2013 Active Member

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    The one thing you didn't mention so far is the battery. remember the battery determines the charging rate if any for the alternator. We have seen brand new batteries defective, absolutly shutting doen the charging system making everyone think it was a bad PCM/ECM or alternator. Load test the battery before proceding further, please.
     
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  18. neon98rt

    neon98rt Well-Known Member

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    my 3.0 is in the PCM. One of the reasons a person should not put a cold air intake in their car . The regulator doesnt get enough air past the heat fins. I put a fan on mine.
     
  19. willrappold

    willrappold Active Member

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    my battery if fine its just alittle low because when i put a load on the system it wont charge the battery, when im not running anything the alternator charges above 14.5 volts as soon as you put a load on it it goes bleow 12vs
     
  20. John Wood

    John Wood Allpar Legacy

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    You might want to read up on the Chrysler power and logic modules on the minimopar.net site. Here is one link: http://www.minimopar.net/ecu/pm-1985-tbi.html

    As long as your vehicle engine is a 2.2 throttle body injector setup, it should have the same power module as all EEK cars from 1985 to 1987. That usually gives you quite a selection of vehicles in a junk yard to choose from. It is possible that either the logic or the power module is bad, but the regulator control (power switching solid state unit) is in the power module behind the battery (air intake hose runs through it).

    I had the regulator inside the power module go bad on a mid 80's EEK car and a $25 power module from a junk yard fixed it. I'm not saying for sure it will fix it, but there is a good chance it will.

    As mentioned by Bob Lincoln, the first step is that you should remove the connector from the power module, clean up the connections (inspect for any corroded or burned pins/connectors), spray with a good contact cleaner, insert the plugs several times to sweep the connectors clean of any oxidation, and re-grease with dielectric grease if the problem is resolved. Of course, also inspect for any chaffing or loose wires.
     
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