Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by tryphon, Sep 22, 2015.
Cars that are affected can still be operated on the road, correct?
You do understand that the emissions standards apply to all 50 States. Whether your State, County, or Parish actually tests emissions is meaningless.
If they vehicle does not meet Federal emissions standards it can not be sold in the US.
As far as I have heard, yes, any affected cars that are already purchased and owned can still be driven and operated by the owner.
They have only ordered a stop to sales of affected cars not yet sold or shipped from the factory yet. So those vehicles sit until VW fixes them.
It would be an unprecedented step if the government told owners of private vehicles they are not allowed to operate them. I don't think we will see that happen.
But, I do think you'll see various gov agencies try to force owners to have the vehicle fixed as soon as it is possible. Doing things like failing the vehicle for inspections or denying renewal of registration, after the owner has a had a reasonable amount of time to get it done.
I do realize that, but that is a moot point when you are talking about the used market in non emissions testing areas. Or I should say a non enforceable point. I was only pointing out that there was an opportunity to pickup a TDI cheap from a scared or offended that the vehicle pollutes more than they thought seller right now, and it would not matter to someone in an area that didn't have to worry about emissions testing. And until the law or the way they tests changes, the vehicle indeed does meet the emission standard. My prediction, no changes, cars can stay on the road.
I agree, they will be allowed to stay on the road, but if they are not fixed by VW-Audi, then VW-Audi will be held accountable just like Chrysler was, and they will have to offer customers huge wads of cash to get them updated.
Dont fool anyone into something very difficult!
Swapping in a modern diesel aint like swapping in an old perkins or 5.7 gm diesel.
These engines are electrically as complicated as any modern gas engine, you basically need to transfer all of the jetta.
We need a constitutional law class to figure out if emission standards can be enforced by the Fed after the car was sold and registered in a state. I could be wrong, but I think there are federal laws about owners tampering with emissions, the Fed simply choose not to invest the time and money into enforcing them and instead leaves it to the states.
The VW's in question are different than a run of the mill car that was Fed emission compliant when it was sold. Cause simply it was NOT Fed emissions compliant when it was sold. So common sense tells me the Fed does has some recourse to force those vehicles to become compliant.
Already mentioned, many states have shown interest in fixing this, and they have the means to do it easily. I think if someone is assuming they can buy one of these diesel VW's and avoid having the VW fix applied to it, simply because they live in an area with no emission inspection, they are making a mistake.
There is a difference between these VW's and other cars. Just because state or local laws/policy let you get away with a few things, doesn't mean you'll get away with it with these VW's.
Sure, I won't be shocked if a few VW's never get fixed, I won't be shocked if everyone of them are forced to be fixed. Its not safe to assume that just because you don't have an emissions inspection, you'll get away with it with one of these VW's.
VW has already stated they will be responsible for correcting the vehicles affected and all of the VIN numbers are known.
If you want one of the TDI's then by all means go buy one. The risk is on you.
Oh I didn't say it was easy or if it would even work, but It could be an opportunity for someone to drop one in a few CJ's or emissions exempt YJ's. I don't know if it would work or if it would be the best motor etc. If it did you could probably pick them up pretty cheap. I would think it would be like any other modern engine swap, you would have to swap in the PCM and the wiring that goes with it, and the sensors so you could fool the PCM etc. The same as switching a modern computer operated gas engine in and older vehicle.
It is my understanding that yes it can be enforced and VW is responsible for correcting the vehicles.
Further, if people refuse to have the vehicles corrected they, in theory could be affected by State Laws for emissions controls on vehicles.
Here is Texas law and it is up to a $25,000 fine for tampering with emissions controls... So if a person put a "fixed" vehicle back to the way it was, they could be fined.
Well shysters will try and clean up here. They will buy at firesale prices sit on them till VW comes up with fix, then sell them in states that don't require emission tests. Sell them at a tidy profit. Everybody wins except the one that owned it before, and VW.
I don't think it's fair to make that assumption as there are many many questions that have not been answered yet.
Feel free to buy on though if you are willing to take the rush and think you can make a buck.
Actually simpler than that Dave, think how vv (not
vw ) swapped images for Lincoln same manner of knowing the database field id.
If this is an emissions certification violation on the Federal level, then I believe that all states are affected.
Correct and it is both a Federal emissions violation and a CARB emissions violation (13 States use the tougher California standards)
Not me, I have never owned another make of vehicle except for Chrysler products. Only pointing out the obvious.
For the EPA part (from EPA website):
Will I be required to have my vehicle repaired once it is recalled?
That depends. Some states require proof that emissions recalls have been performed prior to issuing the vehicle registration. Even in states that do not have this requirement, it is important to have emissions recalls performed because without the repairs, your vehicle may be emitting harmful pollutants in excess of the federal emission standards. You are not responsible for repair costs related to an emissions recall.
Even if EPA voids the certificate of conformance for the vehicle already registered, if I remember well what I read years ago about some motorcycles in U.S.A., customers can continue to drive it.
In Europe, if certificate of conformity is voided, You cannot drive a vehicle on public roads.
You are still not understanding the regulation. The vehicle is supposed to meet emissions standards for 120,000 miles, not just during the test.
The VW vehicles in question can not meet the emissions standards during normal operation for 120,000 miles of service without clever programming to fake the verification test.
I suggest again that you check out the links provided and understand the regulation.
Because of one automobile company's "help", just over the horizon is real-time, full-time active emissions performance readings and reporting which will accompany monitors for exterior driving conditions and engine performance (I'm thinking it will happen through our On-Star uplinks).
Blue-and-Me for our Tailpipes.
Brick and Mortar testing stations could be phased out.
Already, cars have an ambient outside and interior temperature reading with climate control, a compass, fuel gauge, tach, speedo, infotainment ... other cars have more. Blind-spot and Back-up sensors are edging closer to everyday items. Sensing devices abound. We've been "Connected " in our cars for years.