AF: Wagoneer delayed - change of plans, screwup, or what? | Page 19 | Allpar Forums
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Wagoneer delayed - change of plans, screwup, or what?

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Dave Z, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. Ryan

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Messages:
    6,893
    Likes:
    12,348
    I seriously doubt sliding doors on an SUV will ever happen. It would be considered a square minivan and that stigma would prevent sales from ever reaching full potential.
     
  2. freshforged

    freshforged Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes:
    2,558
    With those huge wheels? With that ground clearance? Could be, but I'm just not seeing it.
     
  3. Bajanbuoy

    Bajanbuoy Durango Dave!
    Level 2 Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2004
    Messages:
    843
    Likes:
    780
    While I agree that that would definitely be a cool feature and be revolutionary, @DarkSky is right. Sliding doors = Minivan... and thus limited in sales, or doomed to fail... Cause no one is going to buy a $80-90k minivan, regardless of any trail that it conquered, lol.
     
  4. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    12,765
    Likes:
    23,203
  5. Alexbucks

    Alexbucks Guest

    I think Self-Opening/Self-Propelled- Opening doors would a nice feature on the more top-of-the-line Wagoneer. But again I see Wagoneer as the "spiritual-successor" of the Hummer H2, but needs to be more Mainstream than the Hummer H2 for CDRJ Network Volume, and at the same time more "Higher-end reaching" too (than the Hummer H2).
     
    freshforged likes this.
  6. Bajanbuoy

    Bajanbuoy Durango Dave!
    Level 2 Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2004
    Messages:
    843
    Likes:
    780

    Yeeeeaaaaaahhhh, respect given. But a handful of 20-year-old turbo'd minivans are not going to erase decades worth of stigmas and make them able to be sold @ $80k a pop, lol.
     
    suzq044 likes this.
  7. Bajanbuoy

    Bajanbuoy Durango Dave!
    Level 2 Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2004
    Messages:
    843
    Likes:
    780
    As well as not ugly like the H2, not obnoxious, not ugly, and of course, not ugly... lol.
     
  8. BobbiBigWheels

    BobbiBigWheels The "Front-Line" Perspective

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2016
    Messages:
    3,245
    Likes:
    4,876
    I hear yah - however I think that sliding doors and Jeep are a bit of a paradox.
     
  9. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2015
    Messages:
    5,547
    Likes:
    10,937
    How about 6 doors instead?? :D

    IMG_0196.JPG
     
    wtxiceman likes this.
  10. Alexbucks

    Alexbucks Guest

    I know you think you think( agree on the "obnoxious") but H2,Prius, and the 300 all became part U.S. Automotive Culture back in 2003-2005 period. EVERY Mainstream Media source couldn't have an Automotive topic without bringing up those 3 Vehicles.

    When Hummer died, it left a vacumm in Full-Size SUV market (the-would-be Hummer H2 buyers) that I think the Wagoneer Family will have to itself (If FCA executes).

    So far the the Wagoneer is closer to H2 than Escalade.
     
  11. sickboy

    sickboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    Messages:
    943
    Likes:
    920
    Here in America it is a domestic, and I can see the snobs unable to see past the name. But what about foreign markets where jeep is seen as a premium brand? I'm sure there was a good bit of market research done to believe there is money to be made
     
    #371 sickboy, Feb 17, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2017
  12. MoparMantis

    MoparMantis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2004
    Messages:
    482
    Likes:
    193
    That's probably where we'll end up, at least for a while. Hard to beat the practicality of a Pacifica. I was glad to see that they brought that option back. I'm just not crazy about the minivans. I'd much rather have full size Jeep/Dodge/Ram suv.
     
  13. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2015
    Messages:
    5,547
    Likes:
    10,937
    Yes. Doubtful that they would enter into a market segment without doing their due diligence (we hope). That being said, mistakes can still be made in execution (see Dart & 200). Hopefully they've learned some valuable lessons from past mistakes.
     
  14. Erik Latranyi

    Erik Latranyi Allpar Legacy

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    12,224
    Likes:
    13,234
    The large SUV segment is one of the toughest. Ford has not really gained much traction within it. GM is covering it with 3 levels of luxury, from the basic Chevy Tahoe (that can be optioned nicely) to the GMC Denali (very good luxury) to the Cadillac.

    I am not sure how they can top the Cadillac and Denali versions (which, I believe are today's version of the Grand Wagoneer) being purchased by the kids/grandkids of the upper middle class (and higher) families that owned Grand Wagoneers 2-3 decades ago.

    Pairing the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer with the Ram hopefully ensures they do not need much volume to break even. That is what Chrysler/Daimler/Cerberus did, but we have yet to see it from FCA (except for the 500X/Renegade).
     
    GasAxe, Zagnut27 and freshforged like this.
  15. Alexbucks

    Alexbucks Guest

    Easy, Denali Costumer has no idea Grand Wagoneer existed in the past. Escalade is its own animal to itself.
    Hummer H2 would be buyer is really the main void the Wagoneer family fills,then Wagoner family has to be both more mainstream for volume (the Full Size SUV for CDRJ Network), and more fancy than the H2 at the same time.
     
  16. Erik Latranyi

    Erik Latranyi Allpar Legacy

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    12,224
    Likes:
    13,234
    Yes, there were so many H2 buyers that they cancelled the brand.
     
    Bajanbuoy, dakota21 and Ryan like this.
  17. Alexbucks

    Alexbucks Guest

    Hummer death ( which is not the point or subject at all ) had more to do with Gas Prices,Recession,GM's Financial shape than the H2 itself.
    In 2003-2004-2005 H2 sold at the 30,000 annually. Add another 1,300-1,500 monthly for being more mainstream and you get Wagoneer sales volume such would be good for number 2 in volume.

    Hummer H2 would be buyer is not an insufficient base of customers.
     
    #377 Alexbucks, Feb 18, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2017
    freshforged likes this.
  18. sickboy

    sickboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    Messages:
    943
    Likes:
    920
    This thought was running through my head as I was typing my post. My opinion was that the dart and 200 were competent cars, but failed do to being uncompetitive, or at the wrong place wrong time during its Stay. Could wagoneer fail? Sure.
    It's also reasonable that jeep doesn't need to compete in luxury at all. Maybe there are people who really do want a jeep. But they want a luxurious one.
     
  19. freshforged

    freshforged Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes:
    2,558
    Features that I think would be necessary to give the Grand Wagoneer to be recognized as "luxury":
    • variable height ride (kneeling feature)
    • Heated buckets
    • heated windshield wipers
    • (well appointed) standard leather interior
    • heated seats (all)
    • parking assist (absolutely necessary given the size of this beast)
    • easy access to the rear seats
    • "onstar" type service
    Features that would be good to separate both Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer from the crowd
    • Offroad capability worthy of the Jeep name (Rubicon not an option given the size of vehicle we are talking about)
    • Sliding rear doors for easy access (I know, I might be the only one)
    • heritage styling (not necessarily retro) that draws on some of the long history of Jeeps
    • very good on-road handling (have driven recent Suburbans that drove like drunken water buffalo)
    • room for up to 9 with out sacrificing generous cargo area
    • collapsable rear seats with flat load floor
    • Descent Control/variable terrain options
    Feel free to add your own ideas
     
    GasAxe and suzq044 like this.
  20. Mopar392

    Mopar392 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,133
    Likes:
    978
    Since it is a Jeep and sharing Ram DT platform, is it possible that Wagoner and Grand Wagoner have a suspension similar to Power Wagon?
     
    suzq044 likes this.

Share This Page

Loading...
 We are not affiliated with FCA. We make no claims regarding validity or accuracy of information or advice. Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.