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WAGONEER PORTFOLIO??

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Archknight, Sep 6, 2020.

  1. tomaz

    tomaz Well-Known Member

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    A woody today wouldnt be made of wood. It would be This:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    This is Stainless Steel with embossed Wood grain pattern and itll be Body colored too.
     
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  2. humdrum

    humdrum Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Tackiness is, I guess , in the eye of the beholder IMHO.
     
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  3. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Honestly, I don’t see the need for a Wagoneer sub-brand. The Jeep brand should be strong enough on its own to support a $100,000 Wagoneer. If it isn’t, a Wagoneer sub-brand is not going to change that.

    FCA may be grossly overestimating the equity contained in the Wagoneer name. Just like those at Ford grossly overestimated the value of the Mark and Continental names, and those at Daimler overestimated the significance of Maybach; they have very limited meaning outside of the building.

    Planning to come up with a new “sub-brand” when FCA has many real brands that are in dire need of fixing, sounds like some executive looking to leave his mark without having to do the difficult work.

    Creating a brand, any type of brand, is not free; it sucks precious time, money and resources. And the fate of sub-brands like these is that it gets nixed the moment the executive who came up with the brilliant idea leaves the building.
     
  4. humdrum

    humdrum Well-Known Member

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    It all depends on how you define a sub-brand. If you would consider a hellcat/Trailhawk a sub-brand, there might be room under that definition for a Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer to have a "sub-brand".
     
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  5. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    It worked on the original. On a modern design, it just looks ridiculous.
     
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  6. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Hellcat was defined by the first, monstruos 700+ HP production motor. That was easy to define.

    What is going to define Wagoneer? Luxury? Comfort? Prestige? Wood paneling...? It better stand in line; that’s one very crowded market space.
     
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  7. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    Well...Maybach as a standalone brand was a failure. Maybach as sub brand has been a success.
     
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  8. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    I wouldn’t call Maybach a sub-brand; you don’t see Daimler slapping Maybach on anything besides the big S-Class sedan.

    What you really mean is...as a prestige trim level.
     
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  9. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    There’s a reason we don’t see the consistently successful automakers coming up with new brands every five years. Launching a brand, again, any type of brand, needs to be a very deliberate task that serves a very specific need on the market. Otherwise it is just a waste of time, money and resources.

    What happened to SRT? The famous sub-brand ended up becoming just another trim level. Scat Pack now outsells SRT 10 to 1 —and bringing uncertainty to the future of that once-glorious SRT name.

    I don’t see a Wagoneer brand, sub-brand or whatever, serving a unique market role. If anything, it is more likely driven by internal ego reasons than anything else. And that’s not a sufficient enough reason as far as consumers are concerned. Either that, or someone in Auburn Hills saw Dearborn turning Mustang and Bronco into sub-brands and figured it better do something similar...

    Thing is, Detroit always underestimates the cost, time and commitment needed to launch a new brand...

    Of all the names in the FCA portfolio, the only ones with enough caché to evolve into some sort of sub-brand are Wrangler...and maybe, maybe Grand Cherokee. But even then, money spent strengthening an existing brand is money better spent than launching a new one.
     
  10. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    Mercedes itself calls Maybach a sub brand regularly. The Maybach sub brand also created the G650 Landaulet, S650 Cabriolet, and the recently revealed GLS 600 will be hitting the market shortly.
     
  11. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Be as it may, who even knows what a Maybach is...? People inside Daimler, some in the automotive world...and that is it. And therein lies the problem.

    The fact that Maybach could not sell on its own, but sells as a Mercedes speaks as much of the weakness of the Maybach name as it does of the strength of the Mercedes name.

    That Daimler hasn’t given up on Maybach is more a sign of their stubborn unwillingness to admit defeat than it is of any real market success. We will see if Maybach survives now that Daimler is bleeding red.
     
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  12. Archknight

    Archknight Well-Known Member

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    IMO, Jeep could simply take the quality of their models to the next level and step up the ladder. If the Wagoneer is an indication of what they can do if they are meticulous with detail, then moving to premium and luxury markets would be an easy move. They could just eliminate some of the trim levels on certain models, maybe from the Cherokee up.
     
  13. humdrum

    humdrum Well-Known Member

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    There are design elements that the concept misses that the original had with the wood paneling idea. In the original the wood paneling is in a depression created especially to house the paneling. Thus it looks well integrated and part of the design. On the concept it looks like an aftermarket add-on. Also on the original the wood edging used does much better job of defining the wood paneling space and creating a clear separation between the two elements. Yeah, I wouldn't consider the woody in the concept as well done as it might have been having paid more attention to the detail of the original.
     
  14. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Exactly.

    Instead of tying up money, time and resources creating a Wagoneer brand, FCA would get a lot more bang for its buck channeling those resources towards significantly improving the reliability, durability and dealer experience of Jeep, Ram, Dodge, Alfa Romeo —and Fiat— automobiles, across the board.
     
  15. humdrum

    humdrum Well-Known Member

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    What's going to define the Wagoneer? Luxury? Comfort? Prestige? Wood paneling? Hellcat? Trail-hawk edition? Track-Hawk? I say maybe all of it. There are new millionaires everyday, even in these terrible times and conditions. FCA is banking on it!
     
  16. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    At the end of the day, China in particular has responded very well to the addition of Mercedes-Maybach models and their projected sales have exceeded expectations. Given that it takes minimal investment to keep this going, I seriously doubt Maybach will be the first on the chopping block as Daimler navigates its future. They’re in fact deliberating a Maybach version of the upcoming electric EQS sedan right now.

    There’s always an exception to the rule. Overall, I agree there’s really no need to go this route the vast majority of the time. It’s interesting to note that at one point around 2010, the Range Rover subbrand was supposed to get more prominence with the introduction of the Evoque. All Land Rover badges and references were to be removed from Range Rover models- you May notice early Evoques had unique Range Rover badges. They realized that wasn’t the wisest choice very quickly and moderated their stance ever since.
     
  17. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Jeep is already delivering on all those fronts, and has for years --well, with the exception of wood paneling. And has been doing it at a handsome profit.

    So, once again what is unique about a Wagoneer brand...? I don't see enough there to sustain a sub-brand...beyond the initial sales to people who remember what Wagoneer was...and need a large 3-row SUV...and have the money to buy one...and trust that FCA can give them the quality and service they expect.

    FCA's record launching/relaunching brands and sub-brands is not very good. There's SRT, Fiat N.A., Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Lancia... The company has proved over and over to lack the necessary vision, perseverance, organizational attention, resource dedication and commitment to see an endeavor like this take hold on the market.
     
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  18. cygnus

    cygnus Well-Known Member

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    Please eliminate the Altitude trim, thank you.

    (Well aware that Ryan will lose his mind reading this, I am also Ryan’s age)
     
  19. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    In hindsight, the reason Ferdinand Piëch mocked Marchionne's plans to relaunch Alfa Romeo, is because he knew very well the degree of long-term vision, strategic planning, organizational resources, corporate dedication and commitment it took to relaunch Audi.
     
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  20. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    There appears to be an ongoing confusion between a (sub)brand and a trim level.

    Trailhawk, Trackhawk, Altitude, etc. are trim levels.

    AMG, M, SRT, and what Ford claims it plans to do with Bronco and Mustang, are closer to a sub-brand. There is a higher level of uniqueness in a sub-brand than there is in a trim level.

    Hellcat, HEMI and EcoBoost can also be thought of as sub-brands given their strong identity on their own. The launch of eTorque, on the other hand, as a brand name for FCA's hybrid technology, has been a flop. Blame a weak value proposition, poor market positioning, lack of marketing clarity and inadequate resources.
     

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