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Was there really an interview there? "The cars are alright?" article from Automobile

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by hmk123, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. jimboy

    jimboy Well-Known Member

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    Very true. I would suppose that a large part of Chrysler's recent difficulties have stemmed from the revolving door approach to management in the last 20 years. I had some hopes that would change with the merger, but SM did not seem to want his senior personnel to focus on their specific brand or area for too long. I don't think there is a single brand that has retained it's upper management for more than a few years, which isn't long enough to make any lasting changes or plans. Every new person wants to put their own stamp on their domain. FWIW, I thought Olivier Francois has been the best at Chrysler. It was under him that Chryslers advertising presence registered with the public, and I believe he was also responsible for the 2013 re-do of Chrysler to sell as Lancia's, which really improved the whole line-up, ( if you can say that about the {then} 3 models ).
     
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  2. Donte Lindsey

    Donte Lindsey Active Member

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    I had some hope for Oliver as well. I dont think what he had planned was in agreement with what SM wanted. I will say the rebranded Lancia cars that were Chrysler's flopped over seas. What he wanted to do for the Chrysler brand seemed like a winning strategy but would cost more than what SM wanted to put out. Damn shame really as I think he is a bright man that could have made the brand way more than some 'People Mover" moniker.
     
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  3. GasAxe

    GasAxe Well-Known Member

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    Remember back in the 80’s when exotic cars with poor reliability was just a part of the experience. Then the NSX hit the scene and my, did the world change.
     
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  4. jimboy

    jimboy Well-Known Member

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    That was the real problem, everyone knew they were re-branded Chryslers because they had been on sale in Europe for years. It was an insult to Lancia and its customers. The happy result for North America was that we benefitted from the suspension tuning, upgraded interiors, and finishes that were done for the Lancia versions. I'd like to see how mother mopar fans would react if they were offered a rebadged Ford F-150 as a Ram truck! About the same as Lancisti reacted to the Chryslers.
    Yes, I thought Olivier had style and class, which was/is just what Chrysler needs, plus a couple of products to sell!
     
  5. WXman

    WXman Active Member

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    We all remember when GM killed the Camaro/Firebird in 2002 for lack of sales, and Ford had planned to do the same if not for the popularity of the "Heritage Program" which brought us the Bullitt, Mach 1, etc.

    And then there was a period of retro-themed popularity that brought back a new muscle car era for a while.

    Well, there are rumors floating around that GM is considering cancelling the Camaro again. It's likely unfounded, but there has been quite a bit of talk about it lately. I think the Mustang/Camaro/Challenger are all doing OK considering the path that the government is trying to lead the auto industry down. But maybe the bean counters don't see it that way? Maybe 12,000 units per quarter isn't enough for them to justify the expense of keeping it updated? And maybe.... maybe FCA is looking at what's going on in that segment and is purposefully not rushing for a new Challenger/Charger because A) the current one is still selling well and B) there is uncertainty in that segment over the next 5 years?

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but sales of Mustang/Challenger/Camaro have generally been trending downward again this year. In fact, the sports car market as a whole has been. It seems to me like bringing out a brand new Challenger/Charger from the ground up would be a risky game to play. Maybe it's smart to take the "watch and see" approach for a while longer.
     
  6. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Challenger/Mustang/Camaro sales have been trending down primarily due to declines by Camaro, followed by Challenger. Mustang sales have been holding steady for the past 3 years.

    BTW, Camaro's sales are now half of what they were when it first came out. This pattern, by which sales boom at first but fail to sustain beyond 3+ years normally signal a model that has pent up demand from a very loyal following but fails to conquest new buyers in sufficient numbers. Japanese sport coupes tend to show this pattern, as well as Toyota FJ Cruiser and Honda Ridgeline. Gladiator sales are bound to follow this pattern as well unless it is able to conquest aggressively --which is unlikely given the high price point relative to the competition.

    Both Ford and Dodge have been nurturing Mustang and Challenger fairly well over the past decade, although Challenger is showing signs that it needs an update.

    Corvette sales are not huge but they are pretty steady, which is impressive in itself for a 2-seater with limited practicality.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. vipergts2207

    vipergts2207 Active Member

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    With the new Corvette that was just revealed the Camaro ZL1 may be on the chopping block. Who in the world would buy the ZL1, when you can get a 2020 Corvette for $2k less? GM just knocked it out of the park with that reveal. Other cars that look downright silly right now include the Supra, Cayman, and the GT500. The lack of value in those is now quite apparent.
     
  8. WXman

    WXman Active Member

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    I agree with this. When I saw that they're going to start the new car at $59,995 the first thought that came to mind was, "Oh boy...the competition is in trouble." There are Mustang GT and Camaro SS models approaching the $50k's now. A mid-engine Corvette priced between those mid-level cars and the upper-level trims of the same may spell trouble for sales of Mustangs and it may even affect upper-end Challengers and Chargers too.

    I'll have to admit, while the Hellcat is my favorite car, it would be really really hard to buy one if the dealer down the street had a red 2020 Corvette on the lot for the same or less money.
     
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  9. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    Hellcat has better power-to-weight, has five actual seats, a trunk, and at $65,000 it won't be more expensive than a similarly-trimmed Corvette (remember: that $59,999 has cloth seats; what else is missing?). Practicality could help the Hellcat win out here.

    At the "import" end of the market, buyers of the Supra and Cayman are not going to have their heads turned by a car that's over three and a half thousand pounds in weight (that's heavier than the Giulia Quadrifoglio sedan!); and lets be honest: buyers of a Cayman aren't just buying the car so they won't be swayed at all...
     
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  10. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Practicality will indeed help Hellcat’s volume.

    But C8’s overall value proposition: 0-60 under 3 seconds, mid-engine handling and performance, exotic car styling, V8 engine, all for $60,000...will undoubtedly put downward pressure on the price of muscle cars costing that much, like Hellcat, GT350/500 and Z28. And it will give vehicles that cost a lot more, like GT-R and likely NSX a run for their money.

    It also sealed the fate of Toyota's new Supra. While it will sell to Toyota fans longing for a spots car, once everyone gets one, C8 pretty much made that car completely irrelevant. Expect Supra to get canceled once again after its initial 5-year run.

    German sports coupes are better positioned to weather C8 given their well-established prestige. But even they are likely to feel price pressure from C8.
     
    #130 aldo90731, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  11. Tony K

    Tony K Active Member

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    So be it, but don't pretend it doesn't exist. After all, if you have salesworthy performance, it may be simple (which doesn't equal easy or cheap, per se) to fix the quality.
     
  12. GasAxe

    GasAxe Well-Known Member

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    The extra real world seating in the backseat will help the Challenger while the 2+2 Mustang and 2+purse/fanny pack seating of the Camaro are going to lose big time. Perhaps GM realizes this and the Camaro will end again in a few years. I did catch a rumor that the Mustang will get larger again next generation to ape the Challengers interior space.
     
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  13. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    .

    The GT-R is its own species.

    .
     
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  14. WXman

    WXman Active Member

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    I'll give you that the Hellcat is far more practical. But, the Corvette will kitten-stomp it in the power to weight category. Even the base model has nearly 500 horsepower. And it weighs, what, 1,500 lbs. less than a Hellcat? It will probably eat a Hellcat's lunch on a drag strip OR race track, and we haven't even started talking about the higher end Corvette trim levels yet.

    I'll be surprised if the Supra makes it 5 years. All of the media reviews I've seen have been mixed already, and Supra loyalists are having a hard time getting past the fact that the new car is basically a BMW, except detuned. The stigma surrounding this car, combined with what you said about the 'Vette pretty much puts the Supra on life support starting right now.
     
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  15. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    You mean just like Wrangler was its own species...
     
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  16. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Try 350 lbs. Curb weight for the 6.2 Hellcat Challenger is 3858 lbs.


    717 bhp into 3858 lbs 185.84 bhp per 1000 lbs
    500 bhp into 3500* lbs 140.5 bhp per 1000 lbs

    Covette is a heavy car for what it is. That's how its so cheap.

    __
    * GM quoted a dry weight of 3300: no fuel, no fluids, no driver. I'm being generous by saying 3500 lbs. Even power -to-weight on the dry weight is worse than the Hellcat's
     
    #136 KrisW, Jul 23, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2019
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  17. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    According to Car&Driver measured weight of Challenger is just shy of 4500 lbs.


    In any case I'm surprised by Corvette price. IMO there should be some compromises. Not to mention that listed performance is not for a base model and we can only speculate on how much some would need to pay for it.
     
    #137 T_690, Jul 23, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2019
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  18. turbonetic

    turbonetic Active Member

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    Camaro has been trending down since 2016 because they bumped the prices by $4500 over the 2015 and have since kept increasing prices by $1000 to $2000 every year. They have priced themselves out of the market - it has nothing to do with what the car looks like or anything else like people think. The product planning on them is terrible too, went to look at a 1SS last week, $50,000 (after discount) and it had cloth seats, a base radio and literally nothing else. The camaro is a rip off.
     
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  19. turbonetic

    turbonetic Active Member

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    Uhh no, a V6 challenger isn't even that light. Hellcat is 4500lbs
     
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  20. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

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    Apologies for the misinformation. I got the figures from a quick search on Edmunds, rather than Dodge, and they quoted the base model weight not the Hellcat. (I think in kilogrammes, so it didn't seem very wrong...). For the record, official curb weight of Hellcat is 4436 lbs; It's the entry SXT that's 3858.

    But... The power to weight of Hellcat is still higher, at 161 bhp per 1000 lbs
     
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