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Who gets the new six?

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Dave Z, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    They say it's naturally balanced especially compared to V6.

    But... It's not simple as that. Inline 6 also has some issues at higher harmonics.
     
  2. Devildodge

    Devildodge Active Member

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    @Mike V. Really enjoyed your latest article. First time I really paid much attention to the new 6.

    Very interesting times in the Mopar world.

    Can't wait for your next article.
     
    Mike V. likes this.
  3. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Sure, but V6 and I4 are not naturally balanced. More NVH to contend with.

    Mike
     
  4. GasAxe

    GasAxe Well-Known Member

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    I'm more interested in how they manage to cure the emissions problems from an I6 and how it will relate to engine power and dependability. I'm looking forward to some slick wizardry.
     
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  5. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    I never said it was going away, but it will no longer be available in more affordable models. Unless they come up with some grand scheme like Ford did for their Ecoboost line and sell it on the reason why it will be so much better then a V8, then it will be just another inline six blown, to make it go fast. Heard this before, in the 80s.
     
  6. James A

    James A Active Member

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    The newest article on the homepage is saying a high powered version of the I6T would put out 385-410... Which is basically the 5.7 territory. How much more efficient would anI6T be than a V8 at that power output? (This question is open to anyone who can answer it btw)
     
  7. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    VoiceOfReason, HWDan and James A like this.
  8. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not smart enough to answer the efficiency question, although gas mileage seems to drop off dramatically when you put your foot in an Ecoboost. One thing's for sure, it's a heck of a lot more complex to get to 390 or so horsepower then a V8 is Hemi or not. And that's what bothers me. Many more things to fix when it starts adding the miles up. Turbos aren't cheap.
     
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  9. HotCarNut

    HotCarNut Defender of Reality
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    Turbos aren't cheap, but they ARE reliable and have been around for 40+ years. Nearly every diesel sold today is a turbo, and those engines can easily run 300k+ miles. Given how complex today's engines are with variable timing on damn near everything, electronic controls, etc, turbos are the least of my worries quite frankly.
     
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  10. Don W

    Don W Active Member

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    And the whistle!
     
  11. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I own a turbo diesel myself. The Cummins in my truck is way over built for use in pickups, so reaching designed duty use unless you're overweight in a pickup is very rare. I doubt the engine we are talking about will be built to those kind of standards. The engine will be built, I don't have to buy it or agree with the company's decision to build it. Since it will move forward, it will fill a hole that the company really doesn't have, but to keep up with others selling multi turbo engines.
     
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  12. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Pricing for the engines have not been determined, nor has the phase out plan been announced.

    Until those items are announced, the assumptions made are accurate.

    Mike
     
    #112 Mike V., Feb 26, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
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  13. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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  14. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    ^^^ What he said.
     
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  15. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    I will say only this - the ZF8 has had an option for integrated hybrid from day 1....
     
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  16. MoparJoe

    MoparJoe Well-Known Member

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    I just don't know how they will pass emissions with the turbos they are thinking about.....
     
  17. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

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    We'll. Italians made some work for P1 and P2. But they are also into BEV. And I'm not talking what are they doing in Torino. In Modena...

    Of-course eBooster is somewhere.
     
  18. AutoTechnician

    AutoTechnician Well-Known Member

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    They have perfect primary balance, and good secondary balance. They are not harmonic free. GM's old Atlas I6 engines run into serious crankshaft harmonics above 6000 RPM - enough to break the crankshaft.
    Cylinders are always perpendicular to the crankshaft in any engine. I'm not aware of any piston engine built that didn't have the pistons perpendicular to the crankshaft.
    ...as are I2, I4, and V8 engines. But it's the even firing back and forth across that plane that cancels any rocking motion out. An I6 engine essentially functions as two mirrored 3-cylinder engines that cancel the rocking motions out. That is what gives the I6 it's perfect primary balance. It's excellent secondary balance comes from the 3 piston pairs moving 120 degrees out of phase, which helps negate some of the rod and piston motion.

    However, perfect primary balance and excellent secondary balance doesn't mean NVH free. I6 engines suffer from high secondary vibrations on long-stroke, long-rod engines. They also suffer greatly from torsional vibrations and crankshaft harmonics at high engine speeds. You can experience this by taking almost any 60s-90s American I6 engine over 4,500 RPM. The vibrations get downright nasty.
    As are modern V6 and V8 engines.
    That engine is a turbo diesel. Not a gasoline engine.
    The key word being had. Ford is now going full-in on V6s, along with many other manufacturers.
    No. The Inline 6 is an inherently balanced design, but inherent balance does not mean smoother. An I6 engine "more efficient" is pure hogwash as well. There is nothing more "efficient" about an I6 design than a V6. It's just as much nonsense as the old "I6 engines are torquey" myth. A V6 engine with the same head design, same bore, same stroke and same camshaft specs will have the exact same power, torque and efficiency as an equivalent I6 engine.
     
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  19. DAGAR

    DAGAR Active Member

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    As to perpendicular cylinders, FCA GSE employ an offset crank meaning that piston travel through the cylinder bore is not 90 degree to the crank - hence not perpendicular. Now you are aware of an instance.... ;)
     
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  20. HWDan

    HWDan Active Member

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    freshforged and ScramFan like this.

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