Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by TheMan, Oct 21, 2014.
Yes and included in my costing.
Just my gut feeling. While SM is an opportunist, I don't think he will pursue this path. I've seen the Italian unions continually harp that without all the aid given to Fiat over the years, they would never have survived. According to the unions, Fiat owes them and Italian people. Also, when the news that the Brampton plant would receive huge government incentives for the next gen LX started to become political, SM shut down that conversation immediately. I don't think SM wants to play that game or be beholden to anyone.
Bob's question about the cost, if keeping it in Toledo costs "x" times more than doing it somewhere else, it isn't a good business decision, especially if you're given free money to do it.
It doesnt cost "x" times more. It costs LESS.
Just saw your post. If an existing plant like Sterling Heights is used, would it cost less than a new plant?
No. More because of the cleanup required. About $1.2 billion. (Everything is under one roof so you have to cleanup everything-you cannot keep production running and "stage" the changeover. Essentially what Ford is doing for the 150).
OK thanks. Appreciate your thoughts.
That said, there is no shortage of space to build new plants. I could point out that if they wanted to build Jeeps right in the Detroit area, Chrysler could buy massive unused factories from Old Chrysler (assuming they still own ’em), knock them down, and start over, with rail infrastructure right there. The benefits of having a brand new plant may be worht a quarter million dollars...
But I think he feels the benefits of staying in Toledo are huge, too. It is a link to history which is needed for the core vehicle. Though I don't believe the creator of the Jeep (Bantam) was based there.
This is great stuff !!
I have always wondered if any of the decision makers at Chrysler ever read Allpar.
There's a reason Toledo has been buying up the parcel's to the West of Jeep assembly. One of the likely reasons is that speculators can't be sure if they can hold Chrysler hostage by getting a small parcel amongst the larger area since Chrysler itself isn't buying any of the property at this point. It could be that the conversation between Sergio and the Mayor of Toledo was "I can't promise to keep Wrangler here until you acquire all the land we need for the new aluminum production facilities. If you/we can't acquire all the land we need at a reasonable price, by a certain date we'll have to go elsewhere."
An important thing for companies is the supporting infrastructure. The state and local governments have to be realistic about what it takes to feed a manufacturing plant with materials and employees, and provide utilities as well. Extra land also might be needed just for access. This is just my opinion as a distant observer.
The desire for a jeep pickup (at least on the internet) seems to be off the charts - way more than 40k / year would satisfy. Is the anticipated cost of an aluminum jeep pickup so high that it will be priced out of reach of a substantial number of people?
Dave, you can say "no shortage of space" three billion times over and it would still be true. As a matter of fact, there's a ton of land that might as well be empty within walking distance from JNAP that would be perfect. I'm sure that they won't have too much of an issue writing checks to the tiny amount of homeowners left over there. Trust me, there's not many. There are entire blocks that may have one or two homes. And let's not even think about the west side of the city. There's a neighborhood called "Brightmoor" that I know has entire blocks with NO homes at all.
Anyone can post on the Internet that they want something. How many of those people have cash on hand and are willing to spend it? That's a much smaller number.
Judging by "Internet demand" the Grand Cherokee diesel should have been a sales success.
Not really. The limits on the size due to line spacing will keep its acceptability limited. You would not have any 4door pickup- strictly a 2 door version with some extra space behind the front seats like a Dakota or MJ Comanche, and not a full "Club Cab" either. You would probably have about 6-7 inches to allow for a rear crash clearance for your head not to impact the bed access glass.
The bed would probably not be unitized to the main body for structural reasons because of FMVSS 216.
In other words your pickup will be about the size of a Ford Ranger in length but a little wider-the passenger room of today's 2 door JK cab with narrower mirrors and fender flares but built with a seperate bed.
Now that is something I could see myself in, if it has a decent tow rating.
Just like the 1st and 2nd gen Dakota you would have around a 1000 lb payload and up to a 6000 lb tow rating with a Pentastar V6 (this doesnt mean a diesel would be precluded).
Addendum: The CKD also figures into the African sales through AAV in Egypt, talked about in another thread on analysts not believing the sales production expectations of Jeep.
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the response.
The idea of jeeping, er, keeping the current JK line in production at the old plant, while producing the new one elsewhere, seems like win-win to me. Jeep is bound to lose sales and money during the changeover, and there's the usual "any changes to Wrangler is terrible" backlash, which can be avoided while they keep pumping out the old rig. I'd assume the JK can't stay forever, though, as eventually regulations would render it untenable, perhaps. But that's not happening as soon as 2017. Maybe a few more years of JK cash cow, with the development money already recouped, as pure profit, while the new unit just keeps adding to the volume?
I've owned two JKs, an 2007 and currently a 2013. Love it but I'll admit there are things that can be improved now nine model years into its existence. I'm one of those "dreamers" Jeep talks about--I WANT to take my JK on the trails every weekend, but I'm lucky to get in a few real wheeling trips per year. For me, some ride/handling/MPG improvements would be nice. For the hard core that I wish I could be, the old JK for a few more years sure would be nice.
It's also just as likely that Jeepers will reject the new model in mass.
Not because of aluminum, or "refinement" but because of a smaller engine and IFS.
For that reason, a butt covering is needed, allowing Toledo to remain open while Sergio wastes billions screwing around with one of the vehicles that keeps Jeep and Chrysler afloat.
Sounds like, after all the battling on all these Jeep threads for all these years, everyone has found one thing they agree on: a few more years of JK at Toledo is good for all.