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Wrangler Crash Test

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by djsamuel, May 7, 2020.

  1. Doug D

    Doug D Virginia Gentleman

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    Back in the late-'60's I remember speed limit signs on the interstates that said "Speed Limit 65 Night 55 Trucks 55". Yes, at speeds of 70-80 mph you may be out driving the beam of the headlights. In other words if something appears in the headlight beams, you would not be able to react in time.

    As I have aged I have noticed my eyes are not so good at night. I really hate driving at night in the rain. Too. much. glare. I can do it if needed, but much prefer not to. The glare from some vehicle headlights is very blinding. 70 mph is about my limit at night - after 42 years of driving I know my reaction time is not what it use to be though it is still good.
     
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  2. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    The problem is many of the modern aero headlights didn’t provide the illumination those old sealed beam headlights did (once the sealed beam headlight was a halogen). Both round and square sealed beam halogens were decent lights.
     
    #42 valiant67, May 10, 2020
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
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  3. Doug D

    Doug D Virginia Gentleman

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    I always liked the quad sealed beams (halogens) on the '86 LeBaron GTS I had. It had very good illumination though I don't recall how well they were rated. Never had to worry about the beams hazing over either. The headlights hazed over so bad on the '92 Acclaim I had they were yellow. I tried a cleaning kit and got about half of the haze off. There is some hazing on my '06 Ram 1500 - I'm considering replacing them when I have the funds though the assemblies are not exactly inexpensive - best deal I found was ~$100 for a set on Ebay or Amazon.
     
  4. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    In the late 1980's Chrysler switched over to plastic lens sealed beam headlights for a while. I had these on my 1987 Dakota and a couple M bdoy Fifth Avenue/Gran Fury. The bad news is the plastic sealed beams hazed over (like the later aero headlights), the good news is there were plenty of glass lens replacements for the plastic sealed beam. I always wondered if it was cost or weight savings. The plastic sealed beam was a lot lighter than the glass replacement.
     
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  5. Tomguy

    Tomguy Well-Known Member

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    Based on how the IIHS measures the vehicle width to determine the point it's crashed at, it looks like the flares may cost the JL here and be the cause of the rollover. The front-end is wedge shaped if you remove the flares. Yes, I know it's mostly sheet metal, but it's sufficient to change the momentum. It's basically pushing the momentum right, and since it's forward momentum shifting right, the vehicle tips as the momentum cannot overcome gravity or the wall and therefore has nowhere else to go.

    I would not fault the IIHS for its methods, it does the same thing for *ALL* vehicles. Basically, hitting a pole or the corner of a building with a JL in the real-world would likely result in the same outcome.

    What I would fault the IIHS for is its automatic downgrade due to the rollover. It looks bad, but what was the driver (and passenger) injury outcome? If it was the same as other vehicles that didn't score low in the test that did not roll over, then I would question the result.

    What I would fault FCA for is not enhancing the strength of the front bumper to the point where it's able to deflect that momentum and overcome the wedge design of the Wrangler's front-end. Whether it's a "Delay" that allows more momentum to dissipate and thus allow enough to "Bleed out" and not roll, or force the momentum in the form of rear lift versus lateral lift, the solution may be rather simple for an FCA engineer to overcome and request re-testing, similar to the F150's crash results not too long ago.
     
  6. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    First, I agree with you on not blaming IIHS. They talked to FCA before releasing the results, too. And they tried it more than once. They didn't do crazy things like Consumer Reports with their outriggers or the moose-test people with overloading the vehicle.

    Second, FCA might well be working on a revision to fix the problem.
     
  7. dakrt99

    dakrt99 Well-Known Member

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    It's overly severe. What's next, extra small overlap? You are right, the IIHS has handed FCA a PR grenade.
     
  8. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    That’s your opinion with no data to back it up. Automakers haven’t been complaining about this test and FCA knew the standards ahead of time. Again, the JK Wrangler passed the test fine.
     
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  9. AC TC

    AC TC Well-Known Member

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    And to be honest, one cant expect a true Jeep with its high center of gravity, large movment suspension and other "off- road" modifications to perform really well in chrash tests designed for the average car out there.
    - the byuer who thinks that its a top safety car isnt realizing what hes getting..and thats a problem.
    He gets a not so nice surprise at the fuel pump, how it handles on the road, how noisy it is and so on just because he bought a cool jeep to commute on the interstate with.
    - dont get me wrong, i like jeeps but they are way to often not used as intended by people who never goes offroad. They have done a god job with lesser models like JGC, Cherokee and Patriot to civilize them and the Wrangler is still left for true offroading so they have to bite the bullet of side effects.
     
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  10. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    Yep. I recall Norm saying something like, people want the cool features of a Wrangler (open top, removable doors, bigger tires, etc) but they don't want to pay the price of admission for owning an off-road vehicle. It comes with a harsher ride, noisier cabin, higher center of gravity making it more prone to being tippy, poor(er) fuel economy, etc. If someone expects it to behave like a Grand Cherokee, then they really haven't done their basic research. Wranglers have come a long way over the years for on-road ability, noise reduction, creature comforts, etc, they still lag behind regular cars and CUV's and for obvious reasons. To expect otherwise is to completely misunderstand what a Wrangler is.

    That being said, if JK was able to pass test this then JL should probably be made to do so too. I don't see it necessarily as that big of a deal, but you always risk secondary injuries when a vehicle rolls over. If they can fix it easily, then it probably makes sense to do so. But I wouldn't be breaking out the torches and pitchforks for this. I save those for only special occasions now. :D
     
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  11. BASONE88

    Supporter

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    Is it possible the torsional stiffness (or other reinforcement) engineered into the JK's(maybe to accommodate the Gladiator or simply make its off-road capability superior)frame, body, or both has created this effect?
     
  12. catdaddy63

    catdaddy63 Active Member

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    This is a very plausible theory. If you realize that the tow hook is mounted on top of the frame rail as a point of reference, at the moment the Jeep hits the barrier, the impact is outside of the frame rail. The front suspension took the brunt of the hit. The frame rail never made contact with the barrier.
     
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  13. LouJC

    LouJC Active Member

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    And it just goes to show how hard it is to get meaningful repeatable crash test results and also be able to relate this to real world accidents.
     
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  14. turbonetic

    turbonetic Active Member

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    Won't make a lick of difference in sales, soccer moms might care but she's in the minivan section of the dealership or looking at grand cherokees. Wrangler buys couldn't care less IMO.
     
  15. LouJC

    LouJC Active Member

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    Now go and look at a JK. You will see that the tow hook is shifted over quite a bit from where it is on the JL. I saw a JL and a JK parked together today at a dealer and the difference is quite noticeable.
     
  16. XRT2SRT

    XRT2SRT Well-Known Member

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    A steel wedge vs an aluminum wedge will react differently to the same forces when imposed against it in the form of impact. There appears to be a lot more "give-in" at the crumple-zone for JL than there is for JK; conversely, the occupant structure for JL appears to be more rigid than it is on a JK. Jl's more pedestrian friendly crumple-zone seams to allow the front wheels to move quickly under the structure, giving a lift-away affect to the vehicle, which in turn spawns the body roll. On JK, this same impact is resisted more, perhaps by it's older but more rigid frontal crumple-zone and is also absorbed by the cabin at the A-pillar which deforms more so than on JL, absorbs more of the impact resisting the lift-off/roll-over and moving laterally, instead...IMHO.
     
  17. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    It’s been posted in other threads that the percentage of people who actually take their Wrangler off-road is about 20% IIRC. So that leaves a whole bunch of customers who could be “soccer moms” or “mall crawlers” or any other irrelevant term someone uses as a label...so I wouldn’t be so sure about Wrangler customers not caring. People who put their families in a Wrangler, and there are lots of them, do care about safety.
     
  18. Matthew

    Matthew Is pushing for progress!

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    they still run halogen on them you have to opt up to LED where as most of the rest of the line (other then Renegad) comes standard with LED headlight. Heck for 2019 the Cherokee came standard with LED lighting all around on every trim level.
     
  19. Matthew

    Matthew Is pushing for progress!

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    They did say there is poor roll over protection because of no side curtain air bags which is why they really downgraded the rating for the fact that it repeatedly rolled over in that test. (I know for me part of the reason I went with Cherokee with price being a consideration too) was that saftey ratings mean a lot ot me and the Cherokee got an IIHS Top Safety pick Plus, and did very good in side impacts and having been in a side impact crash at 18 that is a very important consideration to me with safety in general being at/near the top of my list.
     
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  20. Matthew

    Matthew Is pushing for progress!

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    They started the test because it is a pretty common kind of crash (including singe vehicle crashes into trees and other obstacles on the side of the road when a car runs off the road. and it is one that has historically caused very high rates of injury and even death compared to other crashes at the same speed. I mean the Cherokee passed the test with the highest rating so it is not like it is an extreme test that FCA or other manufactures don't know how to pass.
     

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