Hello, Allpar Forums member or visitor! If you were a member, you would not see this ad!

Register or log in at the top right of the page...

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Wrangler on the road

Discussion in 'Mopar News' started by Dave Z, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    991
    Likes:
    776
    When are they going to give it 5,000 lb towing?
    I see often the Unlimited towing large boats at my local ramp even though they are only rated for 3,500 lbs?
    These do have full frames..No?
    Why is the tow rating so low?
     
  2. dmcdonald

    dmcdonald Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    872
    Likes:
    916
    Cooling, suspension, brakes, etc....pick your combination.
     
    suzq044, GasAxe and UN4GTBL like this.
  3. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    991
    Likes:
    776
    All easy I would think to get a small 1,500 lb towing increase. Heck a Pathfinder is rated 6,000 lbs.
    The Wrangler Unlimited is a perfect tow vehicle especially for local travel.
    4WD, OK to get wet both in and out, which happens often launching and retrieving a boat.
    Missing some sales because of the low tow rating that is for sure!
     
  4. link3721

    link3721 Yes, This MK Goes Off-Road
    Level 2 Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    956
    Likes:
    656
    The reasons for the low row rating have been discussed many times. The decisions made to give the Wrangler its tremendous off-road capability are also the decisions that limit its tow rating. Maybe the truck will be able to offer more towing capability for those that want it.
     
  5. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    991
    Likes:
    776
    Ahh, so more suspension related which would make sense. Thanks!
     
  6. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    31,997
    Likes:
    11,569
    Plus Wrangler is relatively sort and narrow, where a longer wheelbase and wider track generally promote better towing.
     
    suzq044 and link3721 like this.
  7. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    991
    Likes:
    776
    The Wrangler yes, but not the Unlimited Wrangler.
    That is 4,600+ lbs, 116 in wheelbase. That is not small, its plenty large enough with enough power to pull 5K load easily.
    Huge front end grill for cooling, live axles, full frame. Tons of suspension options....I don't get it.
     
  8. Erik Latranyi

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    11,054
    Likes:
    10,705
    You don't get it because you are not a vehicle engineer that must design a safety-margin into vehicles and meet FMVSS at the same time.

    Most people do not understand that weight of vehicle and powertrain alone do not make a safe towing vehicle. Shear forces from a trailer of a certain weight must be considered.

    A 5000 pound trailer swinging left/right behind a vehicle that is 4600 pounds can throw that vehicle off the roadway.....especially when traction conditions are less than optimal (rain, snow, etc).

    If you believe the engineers are setting the limit artificially low for some insane reason, please state that. Otherwise, understand that there are reasons for things beyond the comprehension of many people.
     
    wtxiceman, suzq044 and GasAxe like this.
  9. suzq044

    suzq044 Resident Photoshop Nerd

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    Messages:
    7,352
    Likes:
    5,541
    just YouTube "towing fails" (or similar) and these are the people that FCA has to make sure don't hurt themselves too badly when their idea of towing goes wrong.. It's a nice visual on why the tow ratings are low. Because people are stupid, and for some, tend to over-load anyway. Unfortunate realities: Towing is not part of drivers-ed.

    [​IMG]
     
    ScramFan, wtxiceman and UN4GTBL like this.
  10. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    991
    Likes:
    776
    Yes, I believe the Engineers set it artificially low...or just don't want to test the Unlimited separate from Wrangler.
    Here is representative of what I see at my local ramp every time I launch my boat.
    BTW, trucks have had sway control for awhile now....


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKyDmIsQSow


    I found it interesting there was a travel trailer outfit that was installing class IV hitches on Chrysler 300's. The owner who perform the mod so a 300 could pull a 28' Airstream approach a Chrysler Engineer about the low tow rating of the 300 seeing it was RWD and had a good powertrain. He basically admitted they did not look at it for the towing market and wanted people to just look at Pickups. Not that it could not do it, nothing in the rear suspension design limiting it, just a marketing decision.
    So with all the aftermarket available for the Jeep, wheels, suspension, ect. its hard to believe there is some design limitation that keeps it at 3500.
     
  11. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    991
    Likes:
    776
    Here's some more fuel on the towing.
    A 1998 Durango with a 7,000 lb tow rating had a 115.9 wheelbase and with 4wd weight was 4,700 lbs, both the same as a Wrangler Unlimited.
    Full frame, solid axle, leaf spring rear. different front suspension on Jeep, but I bet today's Jeep has way better brakes, plus modern stability control the 1st gen Durango's did not have. They didn't even have 4 wheel ABS!
    How the heck can a Jeep Unlimited be limited to only 3,500 lbs?
    It just doesn't add up.
     
  12. GasAxe

    GasAxe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    4,621
    Likes:
    5,537
    @Chase300 There is so much incorrect in your post, but to understand, you need to drop the idea that just because a redneck idiot tows a huge boat out of the water, it's the same as towing that boat going 70 mph down the road. Any aftermarket company can sell you any whiz bang component for your vehicle without needing to meet federal safety guidelines. Once you accept that manufacturers have to meet much, much stricter guidelines and safety requirements, then you can start looking at the basic factors that go into increasing tow capacity. If you dismiss the reality, then there's no point in telling you why it can or can't be done.
     
    suzq044 and UN4GTBL like this.
  13. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
    Staff Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2001
    Messages:
    32,393
    Likes:
    15,056
    Chrysler and now FCA have pretty strict guidelines. They are now industry standard but yes, they go around braking, acceleration, stability, cooling, etc. Dropping the “redneck“ reference, you can tow the Space Shuttle with a Tundra or a Ram 1500, but that doesn’t mean it’s safe to tow a 20,000 pound trailer with them... because you have to turn without flipping, stop safely, accelerate up hills with the a/c on, etc.

    Bob Sheaves posted the guidelines here a while back but I'm sure you can Google - even within Allpar - what the tests entail.
     
  14. suzq044

    suzq044 Resident Photoshop Nerd

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    Messages:
    7,352
    Likes:
    5,541
    Aftermarket add-ons do not require federal testing that factory vehicles do. It's why your factory warranty is void if you bleep around with certain components of your drivetrain and/or suspension.

    The thing is, Wranglers have a high center of gravity, and with the right thing going wrong, that trailer could cause things to go sideways real quick. A bad gust of a cross-wind with the wrong trailer, or, the air-flow of a big-rig passing at speed, and you're on your side, or worse, in a Wrangler.

    It's not just about being able to tow in perfect conditions, they have to withstand almost any condition; or at least recover if there's an unexpected issue. It just wasn't designed as a tow vehicle. Someone using their wrangler to drop a boat off a loading dock, doesn't prove anything but what that owner was willing to risk.
     
    UN4GTBL, ScramFan and GasAxe like this.
  15. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    991
    Likes:
    776
    I was overall just curious if Jeep had fully vetted the tow rating out internally or just based it all on the shorter wheelbase Wrangler...which personally I would not tow more than a couple of Jetski's with.
    I've been towing boats for 30 years.
    I've towed over my 2001 4.7L rating all of its life as it was clear its low tow rating...(4,750 vs the IDENTICAL 2001 D w/5.9L @ 7,000) was artificially set lower to sell 5.9L engines, NOT because of any limitation the 4.7L/45rfe powertrain had.

    Clearly Marketing has a hand in this too...not just Engineering.

    But Thank You for the replies, I'll do some "Bob Sheaves" searching...but would've preferred some Norm insight.
     
  16. superduckie5000

    superduckie5000 THE MAD DUCK
    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,231
    Likes:
    1,094
    Ha Ha ! You Made a Funny !
     
  17. CherokeeVision

    CherokeeVision Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    5,411
    Likes:
    2,093
    Not trying to ruffle feathers but...
    The XJ Cherokee had similar offroad capabilities as the Wrangler of the same time period.
    And it had a 5000 lb tow rating.
    (Yes standards have changed since then)
    I'm just thinking that not having a fixed, non removable top fits into the equation somewhere.
     
    link3721 likes this.
  18. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic
    Level 2 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,592
    Likes:
    3,976
    Yes, the old adage...just because someone CAN do something doesn't mean that they SHOULD do something. Darwin awards are often given out for such things. And there's a reason why a certain knowledgeable engineer former-poster here used to use the phrase "trinkets and trash."
     
    suzq044 likes this.
  19. Chase300

    Chase300 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    991
    Likes:
    776
    Maybe, except the Wrangler Unlimited is available in a Hard Top version.
    No, I think its as simple as Engineers were never told to look at it so it has the same tow rating as the short wheelbase Wrangler.
    Let's see if the upcoming Pickup ends up with the same minivan 3,500 lb tow rating.
     
  20. DarkSky

    DarkSky Moderator
    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2016
    Messages:
    2,389
    Likes:
    3,771
    Having a removable hard top is not the same as having an integrated, fully closed top.
     
    JKU12, suzq044, Ruptured Duck and 3 others like this.

Share This Page

Loading...