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WTF is going on at FCA?

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by aldo90731, Jul 20, 2020.

  1. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Apparently you have not read about the JL and now JT steering problems that have been around for years. Some of these people have been to the dealer multiple times. The NHTSA is flooded with JL and JT steering complaints. FCA dropped the ball big time. Multiple software revisions, multiple steering box revisions, supposedly updated alignment specs. And now a brand new steering box. Keep making excuses. If they don’t get it right, can you imagine the damage a huge Wrangler and Gladiator recall would cause?
     
  2. page2171

    page2171 Well-Known Member

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    Did they not test it before putting it into production? This is something JL owners have been complaining about side there beginning. How did no one at Jeep notice it before it went into production? For what a new Wrangler costs, I shouldn't have to figure out our buy a band-aid fix for what should have been caught before it went into production.

    That said, I'm not angry. I don't own a Wrangler now, and wasn't really looking to get one. The JT was kind of interesting as a potential replacement for my Ram until this thread came up. Now it has moved down the list for the time being. If FCA pulls their head out of their back side, it may move back up.
     
    #322 page2171, Aug 14, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  3. CherokeeVision

    CherokeeVision Well-Known Member

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    Yep. At 12 years old the interior of my 89 Cherokee with its soft vinyl everywhere looked much better (was more durable) than the hard plastic in my 01 Cherokee did after the same length of time.
     
  4. XRT2SRT

    XRT2SRT Well-Known Member

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    THIS IS VERY DISCOURAGING....I was just coming to grips with having only the one body config. and voting it up to the top of my vehicle shopping list.
     
  5. Jerry Simcik

    Jerry Simcik Well-Known Member

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    You're focusing on the few people making lots of noise, not the thousands of vehicles out there with no issue. Also, there are NHTSA reports over lots of silly things that at the end of the day are either no issue or a operator error. For a 2020 Wrangler there is a mention of the vehicle understeering in a turn then causing the drive to over-correct, another for a "death wobble," for a sudden loss of control resulting in the vehicle ending up in a ditch, etc... These issues are likely due to driver error or modifications, but those don't get mentioned... If you look at JT, it's the same sort of stuff. Furthermore, between 2020 JL and JT, there are less than 200 complaints. How many have been sold again this year?????

    I'm not making excuses; I'm simply pointing out facts and data and offering a SIMPLE solution.
     
  6. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    The vast majority of these complaints are from owners of brand-new JLs.

    There does seem to be some confusion among a small number of customers who are using the term “death wobble” incorrectly, but the vast majority of complains describe it as “vague steering,” “loose steering” and “dead spot.”

    There are dozens of videos on YouTube of owners yanking the steering wheel left and right without it steering the JL one bit. There are hundreds of forum posts claiming that their dealer efforts/aftermarket solutions corrected the issue, and just as many claiming that it didn’t, with tons of mentions of frustrating dealer visits, lemon law suits and vehicle buybacks.

    I’d guess the number of owners of a heavily modified JL claiming to have steering issues are only between 1/3 and 1/4 of all the complaints I’ve seen.
     
  7. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Well-Known Member

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    I found this British survey of car-brand reliability...based on criteria such as frequency of repairs, cost of repairs, and length of repairs rather interesting.

    Since Jeep did not have enough vehicles in circulation, it did not qualify. However...I have this sinking feeling it would have done poorly.

    Of the 29 brands surveyed, the following would be of particular interest to us here:
    # 6 Fiat
    # 13 Peugeot
    # 16 Vauxhall
    # 17 Citroen
    # 25 Alfa Romeo

    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUIK7K_q8eY
     
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  8. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Yesterday I saw a banner ad for $7,350 off in bonus cash on a new Chrysler Pacifica PHEV, and another for $3,000 additional bonus cash off a 2019 Fiat 500X.

    Employee Pricing ended on JT, but I’m seeing rebates of $1,500 to $2,500 on both JL and JT. Which is weird because there appears to be a shortage of JLs as far as I can tell; JTs seem to be in ample supply. There are 100+ of the new Gladiator Mojaves within a 200-mile radius; some are already listed for 10% off MSRP.

    According to KBB, my 2018 JL with 4,500 miles is now worth $3,000 more in trade than what I paid for it new 10 months ago...! The problem is the price on a new JL or JT is lunacy!
     
  9. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    I can understand that if you lift your vehicle from original specs one could expect different handling characteristics. But if it's bone stock, a modern motor vehicle should not be a chore to drive. I have personally driven a 1924 Chrysler and a 1932 Plymouth many times. The difference in driving the two is almost night and day. The Plymouth in 8 short years was much more civilized then the Chrysler. My point being this is 2020 why is this an issue?
     
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  10. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    This one just popped up this morning —edited from brevity:

    “My Jeep is a 2020 red JLUR EcoDiesel fully loaded including the sky top roof.

    It ran flawlessly (including some time at Hollister Hills SVRA) until 2,800 miles, the check engine light came on following several episodes of complete loss of engine power when trying to accelerate at stop signs or traffic lights. It seemed that the problem manifested soon after starting the engine (i.e. cold) and that acceleration and power seemed to normalize once the engine was warmed up.

    My JL was at the dealership for 4 weeks, initially being told it was a faulty EGR valve. I was then informed that there was also a leaking EGR coolant system and a leaking high-pressure injector fuel return line. That little return line had to come from the FCA engine factory in Italy...

    I finally picked it up this past Thursday and drove it back to my office, ~ 25 miles. No problems. When I went to pick up lunch at a local restaurant, the acceleration failure issue happened again. This time, I saw a new indicator light, the ESS fault indicator. When I went home last night, the check engine light came after the engine started sputtering on ignition start. Acceleration from a stop was highly abnormal until the car warmed up, after which engine response and power seemed to normalize.

    Here is what I am observing:

    If the problem occurs when the car is cold, perhaps that implies a mechanical issue somewhere like a stuck valve or a partially clogged or kinked fluid line that clears when it heats up and expands. In my case, maybe the EGR issues were the result of, rather than the cause of, some other problem, like in one of the systems that control combustion. Given that the problem occurred despite replacing the EGR valve and cooling system, it would add strength to that argument. Alternatively, perhaps there is a software bug that is causing the ESS to get confused because of abnormal combustion…

    I would like to be able to enjoy my JL and have confidence that it is safe to drive and reliable enough to be able to enjoy it for what it is made for, exploring off-road. At this time, I am not confident about taking this car to the mall, never mind up the Rubicon Trail. If this issue drags on, by the time I get the Jeep back, this summer season will be over. If there was ever a summer to go off road and off the grid camping, this was it due to COVID-19.

    I was going to bring the car immediately back to the dealer but I decided to hold on to it for a while. I think it might be helpful if I spend time behind the wheel to better understand the range of behaviors with the car cold vs warm, ESS turned off vs left on, etc. Although the service advisor said that the technician took my JL out for a spin and found that everything was working well before releasing it, the problem came back after some time on the road.

    So far, I have been satisfied with the responsiveness of the dealer and FCA but they are running out of time to get it right before I start thinking about the ‘L’ word…”

    —David
     
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  11. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    For reference, a fully loaded 2020 JLU Rubicon with EcoDiesel and one-touch roof has an eye-watering MSRP of $65,000.

    He sounds like a very different type of buyer from the blue-collar, DIY crowd that used to buy Wranglers before FCA. This particular JL owner says he owned German cars before, and so far, seems pretty appreciative of the service he has received from his dealer. But you can already hear the frustration mounting.

    Looks like 2020 is turning out to be a especially bad vintage for Jeep Wranglers. Perhaps the COVID-related plant shutdowns and now the stresses on the supply-lines, are proving too much for FCA’s traditionally inadequate QA processes to handle.

    Also, having to wait 3-4 weeks to have your Jeep fixed appears to have become the new “normal.”

    That’s what it was like to own a Fiat...30 years ago.
     
    #331 aldo90731, Aug 15, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
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  12. HoboChangba

    HoboChangba Well-Known Member

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    The 'wait' seems to be occurring more and more irrespective of the brand. My son works for a body shop and does a bunch of work for an Acura and Nissan dealers across the street. Waiting on parts is now the norm and has been getting worse over time. The pandemic surely doesn't
    help.
     
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  13. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    And it’s happening in a very important vehicle (Wrangler) in one of FCA’s most important brands (Jeep). You would think they would be highly motivated to remedy this. From the outside looking in, it does not seem to have been a priority up until now. For a premium brand like Jeep has become, and the prices it charges and the profits it brings in, the customers have a right to expect better. They’re paying the premium price, FCA isn’t living up to their end of the bargain by providing a premium product or by providing premium service.

    I tell you, in the next couple of years I’ll be making two vehicle purchases. One is a people mover SUV (Durango?, GC 3-row?) and the other was supposed to be a JT. I’m not getting the warm and fuzzies about shelling out over $100k (combined) and having to deal with crap like this...though I’m not overly optimistic about most brands anymore...just to be clear.
     
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  14. CherokeeVision

    CherokeeVision Well-Known Member

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    Mechanics on Just Rolled Into the Shop (at https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/ ) are pointing out issues with brand new 2.0 and 3.6 engines on Wranglers and Gladiators.
    Bad bearings on cams with less than 5000 miles on a 3.6 and several 2.0's that have compression problems straight off the transport truck.
    Obviously this is one site and only a couple of people but it does make me leery of wanting to plunk down very serious coin for a new vehicle from FCA.
    I was more forgiving of issues in my younger days and took them in stride. Now I want dependability and quality first before anything else.
     
  15. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    I will be in the market for a Ram 1500. Like I've stated before and now I'm sure, I'm waiting until the merger plus at least a year to see what changes come. I just can't see how Tavares will tolerate this stuff. But given the culture at Auburn Hills, it will not be easy. They will try and make him comply with their way not his way. There may be another exodus of some top people. Personally, I don't see where that would be a bad thing. There may be some folks that are lower on the totem pole that may have the drive he will be looking for.
     
  16. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Tavares has also shown a keen eye for spotting good talent, elevating it, and supporting it. So there’s hope.
     
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  17. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Plus problems become harder to overlook when FCA just pocketed fifty big ones of your hard-earned money.

    This is one connection FCA doesn’t seem to make with its fixation to push up transaction prices relentlessly.
     
  18. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

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    Over the years dating clear back to 1975, I've had the honor of meeting some very nice people that worked for Chrysler, first at Highland Park, then later at Auburn Hills. Now this is just my observation, it seems that some of the guys I encountered were indeed really car guys. The ones that spewed arrogance were always, mouthy, and thought their positions were always safe and you could tell, didn't really care what outsiders, aka customers, didn't matter to them. And they didn't seem to be real car guys.
     
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  19. HotCarNut

    HotCarNut Defender of Reality
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    Interestingly, this is NOT a new problem with the EcoDiesels. My boss has a RAM 1500 EcoDiesel, but not the latest generation. I believe his truck is a 2016. Anyway, ever since the emissions recall, it has almost no power at startup, and it’s even worse in the winter. The lag is TERRIBLE. It’s nearly gotten him t-boned numerous times, including once with me in the truck. Once it warms up, it’s perfectly fine. He’s towed with it for thousands of miles, it’s well broken in, and it isn’t a lemon in any sense of the word. I firmly believe that the software update surrounding emissions, and the software in new diesels, is causing some extreme issues at startup and when cold to keep emissions in check. Potentially getting people killed (no, I’m not exaggerating) or at best inconveniencing customers such as above seems to be the way FCA chose to deal with diesel-gate.
     
  20. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    JL - Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon (3.6 Pentastar engine) oil leaks and other problem.
    Car was replaced and their car had an engine replacement too.


    p.s.: there were Pentastar gasoline engine oil leaks already in the JK.

     

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