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WTF is going on at FCA?

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by aldo90731, Jul 20, 2020.

  1. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    It’s $330 for the Mini Tazer programmer, which offers most functions. The dealer will charge you $100 to disable the ESS alone.

    Another annoyance are the weather alerts. Travel Link will take over the center screen and disable all your controls to warn you, 20 times in one day, of a winter storm 500 miles away. If the following day that same storm continues raging, it’s the same thing all over again. The only way to turn this feature off is by disabling Travel Link completely with a Tazer. Or to wait for your free subscription to Sirius Travel Link to expire...in 5 years...!
     
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  2. Zagnut27

    Zagnut27 Jeepaholic

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    Boy, that sounds delightful!

    I just want to get into my car and listen to my radio as I drive the long slog into work. Not be serenaded with a whole host of intermittent chimes and alarms. Perhaps that’s too much to ask for now, unless I buy something used that’s 10 years old.

    As far as vehicle quality, I feel like they’ve all got their issues (coming from someone whose driveway has been like the United Nations of car brands). It just depends on which flavor of crap you prefer.
     
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  3. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    Sorry for getting philosophical. And maybe naive? Ever since Internet forums started and especially since YouTube I have read and seen a lot of reports of things going wrong with cars. To the extend I wonder how car companies stay in business. Of course, when somebody spends $50k of their hard earned money and something goes majorly wrong it is "news". Even more so when companies fail to fix it. But must there not be a silent majority for whom things are working (not necessarily talking about the steering issue) or otherwise wouldn't a car company go bankrupt just from warranty cost alone? I know there is of course the damaged public relation image. Just wondering from a financial perspective what percentage of failed vehicles most companies can deal with. We also have to keep it mind that while we all want 100% perfect there is a cost to that as well. Now I get it, that doesn't help anyone who needs their car for basic transportation while it is sitting in the shop.

    To a certain extend modern vehicles are miracles to me. The complexity is enormous. And customers seem to "demand" shorter and shorter refresh cycles. Or maybe the industry is doing it to themselves. While agile software development has sped up the development process this doesn't quite work the same in the world of physical hardware where material costs real money. And by the way, when is the last time you bought a piece of software that didn't download a number of hot fixes the minute you started it? The recent security flaw Apple fixed in iOS devices' native email app for example feels like a major engine blow up to me.

    Maybe if we all slowed down a little not only would quality of products improve but quality of life, too.
     
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  4. Doug D

    Doug D Virginia Gentleman

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    If FCA doesn't pull their collective heads of their a$%#, I may be strongly considering GM the next time around or even Ford. We already have an Equinox so we are halfway there. I'd really like to get a Challenger, but who knows, I may end up with a Camaro or Mustang. If I were to get another truck, it would be a tough decision though - Ram is good (EcoDiesel excluded), and yes, Chevrolet interiors are to be desired and the F150 is, well, a Ford. Though I have to admit my buddy's '19 F150 is a very nice truck.
     
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  5. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Yes, the automaking business is clearly more complex. For instance, JL is a better Wrangler than JK in every way. But at the same time it is hard to understand that after 3 years FCA is still unable to make two JLs steer the same, let alone fix the steering issue altogether. Another is, as good as Uconnect has become, who designed that retarded weather alert? It is as if someone purposely went out of his way to design the most annoying interface possible...and ruin all the hard work that went into making Uconnect the most user-friendly system in the industry.

    When you add that (1) your average Wrangler now has an average MSRP of $50,000, (2) vehicles have so much stuff on them, and (3) it is nearly impossible to do anything without involving your --reluctant-- dealer, it is easy for frustration to build up.

    As vehicles become more complex, the more important the dealer experience becomes. But for some reason FCA remains completely blind to the latter.
     
  6. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Yup.
     
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  7. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    That’s one thing they can learn from Apple (am I wrong or wasn’t SM a big fan?). I am sure their stores and the way they run them helps them a lot with their positive image. There is a lot of opportunity in the industry to fix things...
     
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  8. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    There are other ways than the Tazer, but still cost a bit.
     
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  9. HotCarNut

    HotCarNut Defender of Reality
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    Bingo - love the new 2500 & 3500 AT4 models, but that interior is just atrocious for a $75k+ truck
     
  10. Impy55

    Impy55 Member

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    I'll take JD Power's study with a grain of salt. Two people I know who've had their pick ups have had to have their brake lines replaced multiple times due to rot in the Northeast due to their design. I had a 2008 Tahoe that was fairly decent but made with cheap electronics, after 50k miles the audio would only come out of the pillar tweeters, had various sensor failings, computer would tell you things like the hood were open while driving down the highway when it wasn't, etc.
    We now have a 2015 Tahoe that we've had for almost 5 years here is the list of everything that has failed before 40k miles:
    Back hatch motor and seal
    Sunroof seal and surround 2x
    Radio head unit
    A/C condenser/ compressor system and all lines
    Radiator
    Battery (Wear and tear item)
    Front brakes and rotors (wear and tear)
    Tires (wear and tear)
    Also has a pretty rough idle that I can't seem to get a tech to nail down

    I know the last three are just the cost of having a vehicle but wanted to show the list of things I've had to do in less than 5 years of ownership, thankfully I purchased GM's top of the line service contract when I purchased the vehicle or else I'd be out a lot more money as most of the failures happened after the 3/36 was up.
    I've Chrysler/ Jeep vehicles most of the life and have had pretty good luck with all of them, save for my 2008 Grand Cherokee, I have a 2020 JLU now and I can definitely see the quality is not as good as it should be for a vehicle with such a high MSRP. I do not however have any steering issues or death wobble thankfully, just have some other minor "quality control" issues like under spray of the paint on the tailgate, HVAC not always working properly, etc.
     
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  11. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    I think this whole multiple ideas for steering fix (no single one that works for everyone) is a sure sign of the experienced talent drain out of DCX/Cerebus/FCA for the last 20 years.
     
  12. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Firstly, welcome to the forum!

    Secondly, I have 26 years in consumer research; most of them in automotive. I have worked in both, proprietary studies —i.e., the results are owned by the automaker and, thus kept confidential— and syndicated studies —i.e., the results are owned by the research firm and often made public.

    To give you a sense of proportion, for each study results that are made public, there are about 20 others that are commissioned on a proprietary basis and the automakers keep confidential.

    Of the handful of studies that are made public, JD Power and Consumer Reports are the most common. But their methodologies are night and day: JD Power uses a scientific method with random sampling; Consumer Report uses a suspect method with a sample of subscribers that grossly biases results. None of this is to say that the JD Power studies are “perfect;” there are other issues. But of the results available to the public, JD Power’s reflect the realities of the market more closely than not.

    This is my long way of saying that each one of us is a sample of one. While our individual experience is valid, consumer research aims to capture the collective experience consumers have with each make —and model. So, from this perspective, it helps to look at JD Power results to get a clearer view of the landscape.

    With that out of the way, the issue with your 2020 JLU HVAC appears to be common: in auto mode the system blows air that is alternatively too cold or too hot, but rarely at the set temperature. Mine does it too, and the online forums are full of posts on this. My JKs had a much more primitive HVAC system that worked just right in auto mode. For JL FCA added “dual climate control” with fancy controls and displays...but the system fails at the basic task of keeping the cabin temperature comfortable.

    It only adds to the mystery of FCA ways...
     
  13. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    On my Gladiator, to keep the interior comfortable in summer I have to set the temperature to 66º. Before that the Ram and Durango were comfortable at 70º in the summer heat. It works, I don't feel the too hot/too cold cycle. I just seems the calibration is way off.

    When oil change time comes, I'm putting the stock tires back on the Gladiator and having the dealer investigate my (mild) steering issues and check the ATC calibration.
     
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  14. BrianinMpls

    BrianinMpls Active Member

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    Mopar cred Gone!!!! ...........it's mentally impossible wrap my head around to want a Challenger but maybe I'll buy a Camaro or stang?
    Next I'm going to start hanging out in the F150 Raptor forums!!...........:confused::eek::rolleyes:o_O
     
  15. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Perhaps the HVAC regulates the temperature better in Gladiator's smaller cabin.
     
  16. dmcdonald

    dmcdonald Well-Known Member

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    I've hesitated to jump into this thread but here it goes....
    I have owned Jeeps steady for over 30 years and my family long before that. I had almost every model, save for the KJ, KL and MP during that time. Currently own a 2019 WK2 and my girlfriend has a 2018 JLU (stock). Luckily, we seem to have a JL with good steering characteristics. In fact, I find the JL to be every bit better than my 2015 JKU. The 8spd really improved performance and the Jeep has been completely trouble free. My WK2 has been equally trouble free but definitely has the HVAC issue of being much harder to regulate temperature than the old manual system in my JKU.
    FCA needs to on its toes with the increased competition the Bronco will provide. Hopefully, they put a fix in place to have a more consistent steering experience in the JL/JT....along with some more innovations :)
     
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  17. WXman

    WXman Active Member

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    Looks like I jinxed myself back on page 2. Went out to the garage and found oil in the floor. Walked outside to where my 2020 Ram EcoDiesel is parked and there's oil spotting the driveway. Looked the engine over and there is oil film from the right side head down to the balancer cover, compressor, and dripping to the oil pan also. 5,400 miles and the dealership will have my new diesel for who knows how long now. Sigh....

    Some guys on the Ram forum said the Gen 2 engines had rampant issues with the timing cover leaking. Maybe the Gen 3s will too? Or maybe it's something else altogether. Who knows. But paying a $5k upcharge for an engine and then having it mark it's territory before the first oil change is frustrating.
     

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  18. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Geez. All the more unforgivable given, as you indicate, the steep price premium FCA charges for these motors.

    Hope your dealer gets it resolved without much issue.
     
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  19. HotCarNut

    HotCarNut Defender of Reality
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    AND the diesel just went completely off my list again....SMH
     
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  20. jsucha

    jsucha Well-Known Member

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