[kuhnzoo]

2003 Ram 2500 QC Short Bed 5.7L NVG4500 MT 4X4 87,700 miles

Truck's throttle went dead while driving to work this morning. P1618 and P2106 codes were set and ETC light was on. Pulled over, idled poorly, stopped engine, restarted engine and all seemed normal. It idled normally and the ETC light was off. Revved engine without problem. Tried to leave and pedal went dead again, no power. Repeated sequence a couple more times before giving up.

During one sequence the truck went entirely dead, the engine didn't just die or stall, the entire dashboard cluster shut down also. After this occurred, all the computer codes were wiped from the memory. I tried once more to start and leave, but no pedal, no power again. Engine did not die this time.

Pulled a P1618 code and P2106 code and also pulled a C-code (Chassis Code?) AA 02. I found info on the P2106 - "Throttle Actuator Control System - Forced Limited Power". This makes since since the pedal went dead. However, I can't find any helpful info about the P1618 code or C-Code AA 02.

Finally, called a tow truck and hauled it home.

Any ideas or info about these codes? I do not trust the truck to operate properly.

 

[ImperialCrown]

P1618 is an erratic primary 5 volt supply fault code. The PCM supplies 5 volts out to supply the various sensors.
There is a TSB # 18-013-03 that addresses a P2106 code setting if your truck was built before March 1,2003. It involves reprogramming (flashing) the PCM with new software. See your drivers door sticker for the MDH (month, day, hour) build date.
I can find no reference to C-AA-02 or anything similar. Leave these codes intact for the dealer to diagnose (don't disconnect the battery yet). If this is a chassis code, they should be able to get it out with the DRB III.
P1618 might be related to the setting of P2106 at the time of the stall. I believe that the electronic throttle body and its controlling software is covered under the 8yr/80,000 mile emissions warranty although the dealer may affix a diagnostic charge.

 

[kuhnzoo]

Thanks for the info. I did have the PCM reflashed in Feb 2008. Not sure if it was specifically for the TSB you mentioned, but perhaps the reflash was comprehensive and addressed any programming updates to that date?

Unfortunately, I did already disconnect and clean the battery, termainals, etc. last night. I have known poor battery condition (or bad conduction at the terminals) or a faulty alternator to cause erratic engine behavior on other vehicles, so I figured I would start there to be sure the battery has clean connections. Battery was new in Jan 2008 and alternator was rebuilt last summer.

I also removed and cleaned the throttle body. Just used a clean cotton cloth, no solvents.

Those C-Codes are strange. I can't find any info about the ones displayed in the digital read-out of the cluster. When I press the Trip Odometer button and turn the key on, it runs through the cluster self-test and then displays:

"C-Code"

then

"AA 02"

then it returns to the mileage readout. It also had a C-Code "AA 08". I am really baffled by these C-Codes.

 

[ImperialCrown]

That flash in 2008 would have included the new software for the old TSB. It may be a problem with the throttle body itself.
It is pretty much non-serviceable and is replaced as an assembly.
2003 was the first year of ETC and the Hemi and some early ETC's did have issues. ETC replacement fixed the issues.
That C-code might be a cluster code and not an actual fault code. The AA-02 and AA-08 might be instrument cluster version numbers.

 

[kuhnzoo]

Thanks again for replying.

This is not the first occurrence for this dead pedal and ETC light coming on in the cluster. It has happened two other times (not recently and neither as inconvenient), but righted itself with little effort from me. Basicially, I turned the truck off, restarted and drove off. Sounds like doing a Ctrl-Alt-Delete to reboot a PC, huh? Maybe microsoft was contracted to write the DCX PCM operating system? HAHAHAHA

Wish it had a throttle cable....

 

[kuhnzoo]

Took the truck to the dealer. They updated the software and thought that it may solve the problem. If not, they were going to replace the Crank Position Sensor. Well, the software update was useless as the truck acted up the next day. Rather than towing it back another hour to the dealer, I bought an OEM crankshaft position sensor and installed it myself. Did not solve problem either.

I am stumped and I am not sure the dealer has any better ideads than just to keep replading parts until something works.

Very frustrating. I can't be the only Dodge truck owner with this problem.

 

[kuhnzoo]

Seem to have two distinct events. Could be related, but not sure yet if they are.

Besides the ETC problem, which does not stall the motor (idles rough and restricts power), there have been several occurrences where the engine was idling normally and then dies (somewhat slowly, not like when the key is turned off) for no apparent reason when just beginning to accelerate from a stop. This event sets no codes and the ETC light does not flash. If there were any stored codes, the codes will be erased by this mysterious shutdown. How can the codes be erased without disconnecting the battery for a period time or reset with code reader?!?). At no time did I stall the engine with inproper clutching (as a matter of fact, I depressed the clutch when the engine begins to falter) or shut it down with the key. Also the fuel gage and coolant temp gage go dead, which should not occur when the key is still in the On position.

The starter motor will not crank if I turn the key to the Start position (with clutch depressed). The starter motor will crank if I turn the key all the way back to the Off position first and then to Start position. And the engine will start and idle as if nothing happened....

Any more ideas?

- Camshaft position sensor?
- Throttle body (throttle position sensor)?
- ASD relay (automatic shutdown relay)?
- Clutch pedal / starter interlock switch?
- Starter switch / cylinder?
- PCM?
- Knock sensor?
- Others things to consider??

Both O2 sensors have been replaced recently, it's on the 3rd MAP sensor, up-to-date PCM programming, and has a new crank position sensor.

 

[ImperialCrown]

Did the dealer check for fault codes in any other modules? Losing gauges may leave behind instrument cluster codes or if the modules lose the communication bus between them, communication fault codes may be left behind. No cranks may leave TIPM codes behind.
For an intermittant condition like this, the dealer should leave you with the Co-pilot data recording tool so a 'movie' can be recorded of what the sensors and PCM were seeing at the time of the issue. This is useful for figuring electrical things out that don't leave clues behind. You just press a button when it acts up and it will record what happend for the last 90 seconds. Then back at the shop the recording is examined.
If the PCM is somehow getting 'reset', it will dump any stored codes it held. The DRB can tell the tech the PCM 'starts since reset' and if the number is low (like from the time of the last stall event) then that may be what is happening. A short to ground in the 5 volt sensor supply can do this. This might be why they wanted to replace the Crank sensor, which apparently was OK.

 

[kuhnzoo]

Honestly not sure what the dealer checked when they did their diagnostic. One would think that all modules would be investigated when they charge a $100 diagnostic fee before they do anything at all. Then it was another $100 for a PCM update and the usual "shop supplies" charge (what shop supplies are used to update the PCM?, I doubt you even get your hands dirty for that). Oh well.

No one mentioned any kind of monitoring device that could be used to capture the events. That would be very helpful for them to diagnose an intermitten problem, I bet.

Oh well, ordered an OEM cam position sensor. They are cheap. If it doesn't work and it probably won't, I'll take it to another dealer and mention the monitoring device.

 

[ImperialCrown]

I would continue to work with the dealer who started on this. If you go to another, you will have to pay another $100 'entry fee'. At least with the current dealer you can ask to waive the diagnostic fee this time as the problem still exists. The worst they can say is no, but they may also be willing to work with you. 'Intermittant electrical' is just as frustrating for them as it is for you.
Communication can be a problem and sometimes not everything that the technician writes on the back of the repair order get conveyed to you..Or by speaking directly to the technician, something that didn't seem important enough to write down at the time becomes an important case-breaking clue. Something that you observed that they hadn't might also help break the case.
Shop supplies charges, fair or not, are a blanket charge used to defray service dept overhead costs. You can ask that this be waived for a return visit that probably won't require use of any shop supplies.
There are several components along the 5 volt supply line (if that code is back) and it could be a 'short to ground/poor connection' along any length of the wire harness as well.
It might help you to work with these guys, ask questions and share with them what you have done/observed.

 

[kuhnzoo]

Again, thank you for your continued correspondence. I agree that it would ordinarily be best to take it back to the dealer where work first began, but I did not get a real good vibe from them. I know that sounds flakey, but they just didn't seem interested in getting to the root of the problem. I am not angry with them, just no desire to go back there again.

I am thinking of taking it to another dealer because I have visited them and they looked more like a repair shop that could dig in and find this problem as a matter of pride (not just replace part after part after part). I also had a co-worker give me good feedback on this dealer's service department (and he is not related to anyone there! HAHAHA). He also mentioned they use the data logging device for intermitten problems (you had mentioned that device also).

And I do realize that this situation is very frustrating for the repair tech, but that is what I am paying for. They have all the special training, equipment, and experience for this brand of vehicle. It comes with the territory, just like all the frustration that comes with my job (aerospace bearing engineer - if our parts fail, people die! Think of me next time you fly). That's what my company pays me to do: my job and to deal with plenty of ever-present frustration and pressure.

I am still hopeful this will be fixed. I just want to get it over with and get my life back to normal. We are down to one car and it sucks since I work 20 miles from home. Lot's of back and forth. I'll update when I have something new to add.

Thanks again for your assistance.

 

[ImperialCrown]

I would have to agree. If you don't feel good about working with them and they don't seem to want to help you, find a dealer that does.

 

[kuhnzoo]

Installed new camshaft position sensor and no luck. No surprise there, I guess.

Off to the dealer with it. I hope they enjoy a good electrical diagnostic challenge. With the complex electrical system, I am now at a loss for options to fix it myself.

Feels like I am being held captive to Chrysler... they should be embarassed that their product (which is supposedly Heavy Duty) is this tempermental and unreliable after only 87,000 miles. But I am sure they couldn't care less, they already got my money (not to mention all the taxpayer bail-oout money).

No more MOPAR for me. As a matter of fact, the troubles I've had lately convinced me to buy a Hyundai (traded in my wife's '04 Jeep GC) if for no other reason than the very long warranty (as a bonus, the dealer tacked on another year and 25K miles to the 10 yr / 100K powertrain warranty for no $$). And I have never bought a new foreign car in my life (I did buy a very used '64 VW Bug back when I was a teen - wish I still had it). The Big Three have no one to blame, but themselves for the mess they are in....

 

[Guest]

I know this post is from a while back, but I am having the same problem with a vehicle in my shop and I was wondering what the final outcome of this problem was. Did you manage to get the problem repaired? Thanks, Mark ARTSSVC[at]GMAIL.COM

 

[chigger13]

Sorry, I know this post is old too, but I am having the same issues out of my 03 Dodge 2500 and was curious to know if anybody found a solution. I have taken it to the dealer and they have put 3 new PCM computers on it, new throttle body, wires, and multiple sensors. None of this has helped a bit and the problem is only getting worse. If there is anything I can do to fix it, please let me know!! I am desperate to fix this truck before it breaks me!! Thanks.

 

[ImperialCrown]

Welcome to Allpar. I did ask the original poster for an update, but he never responded to my PM. He sounded pretty disgruntled about the truck and probably moved on.
After 3 PCMs on yours, I think that the PCM can be ruled out as the root cause.
Are you having the same P1618 and P2106 fault codes and is your also a 2003? Are your symptoms the same?
Lack of diagnosis means that a guessing game of what part to replace next on your dollar is taking place. Don't allow them to do this.
If no clues are being left behind, ask to borrow the Co-pilot so they 'hopefully' at least have something to go on. Always Diagnose First.
Meet with the service manger and have him follow the repair progress through the shop. Ask to deal only with him.
Believe me, these problems are frustrating and challenging for all concerned, but there is a proper documented diagnostic procedure to follow in order to get a satisfactory answer. The wrong thing to do is to just blindly throw expensive parts at the problem.

 

[chigger13]

Yes, mine is a 2003 Ram 2500. Bought it a year ago with 84,000 miles and started the problem soon after. Codes P1618 and P2106 have been on since i bought it and nothing has fixed it yet. Taking it to a good mechanic (not back to the idiot dealership service) next weekend and i will pass along any ideas if anybody came up with a cure!

 

[MoparNorm]

Yes, mine is a 2003 Ram 2500. Bought it a year ago with 84,000 miles and started the problem soon after. Codes P1618 and P2106 have been on since i bought it and nothing has fixed it yet. Taking it to a good mechanic (not back to the idiot dealership service) next weekend and i will pass along any ideas if anybody came up with a cure!

Welcome!
In defense of the dealership, yes there are bad ones, but there are also excellent ones and as good as a mechanic may be, he may not have access to the needed Chrysler test equipment.
If your new mechanic can't fix it, don't be afraid to try another dealership.
Good Luck and keep us posted.

 

[Will Dimmitt]

Okay I know it's been like over 2 years but I have a 2008 Dodge Ram 1500 and I'm having similar problems. I am working with my dealer because I trust them and because I have no idea where to start but it's getting exhausting and losing hope. I miss Mitsubishi I traded in for this POS truck...anyways. I have several codes on my truck and I got it back less than two weeks ago after they replaces my TB (throttle body) they also said there was an cluster code with my dash board. Okay, so I get it back and still have been taking a bus because I didn't have money to go back to work and left it....and I was driving it yesterday and the damn ETC light came on. Then I got codes: P0335, P0642, P2122, P0124, AND P0122. It then reset it's self and the truck was fine. I finished helping my friend move, and then came back home and then today I just wanted to get out of the house for a minute. I hit a bump and BOOM ETC light, no engine code. I stopped my truck, restarted engine and the problem was gone and then drove not 100 feet and then engine code, as well as ETC light and total dead power. Took a few tries to get it started and drove it home and got the same codes PLUS some: P0339, P0335, P0642, P1618, P2122, P2072, P2111, P070E, P0124, AND P0122. I'M exhausted. I got this truck so I wouldn't have any problems....please if you guys have any idea...help? If not i'll keep posting what dealer says....but I'm so tired of fighting with a truck that is suppose to NORTH AMERICAN!!! Anyways...any ideas? Help? Please?!

 

[ImperialCrown]

P0122 - Throttle Position Sensor 1 circuit low. (May be related to P0642).
P0124 - Not listed for 5.7L?
P0335 - Crankshaft Position Sensor circuit.
P0339 - Crankshaft Position Sensor intermittent.
P0642- Sensor Reference Voltage 1 low.
P1618 - Sensor Reference Voltage erratic.
P2072 - Electronic Throttle Control system - ice blockage.
P2111 - Electronic Throttle Control - unable to close.
P2122 - Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor 1 circuit low.
P070E - Not listed for 5.7L?

Is this a 5.7L? I'm working from an older service manual. There are 2 codes for the ETC (electronic throttle control) stuck and not able to close (they just replaced this)?
The other codes are from sensor supply voltages low/erratic issue and may all be related to P0642 and P1618.
I would suspect a wiring/poor connection problem if you noticed the problem right after hitting a bump. A wire may have rubbed through and is intermittently grounding out?
90% of the repair may be finding the wiring issue. If it can be reproduced, that is the best way of verifying it.