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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone had a timing issue with a 2.4L vvt? I have a 2008 Caliber R/T FWD CVT, the car has 198,000 miles on it and recently threw a front cam sensor code, I replaced both front and rear cam sensors. Couple days later it went back to long cold cranking times and threw a crank sensor code (figured it would since I just swapped out the cam sensors). I swap in a new crank sensor and cleared the DTC's..

The car is still having issues with long cranking during cold starts, and throws the (Crank out of sync)) code when it acts like this. Let it warm up and clear the code and it drives fine about 70% of the time but occasionally stumbles. So I swapped the original crank sensor back in to see if anything changed (I ran the scan tool with on both sensors to eliminate them).

I recently put the scanner on it and did a couple active drive test and found out the "base spark" timing is out of spec and way high. The factory spec (per scan tool) is 0-63.5 degrees this thing is running about 72 degrees and spiking up to 87-90 degrees. The "cam timing" is in spec but the "base spark" is off.
I am wondering if it's possible that this engine (198k) jumped a tooth on the timing chain at the crank? I don't want to get to far into this motor because it still has the mopar lifetime warranty on it, but I don't want to drag it there for something simple I have over looked.

I did a dry compression test on cyl1 and cly4 and they both where a hair under 150psi, I don't know if 1 tooth off would change the compression enough or not..

Anyone have any advice or run into similar issues?
Thanks in advance.
 

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Welcome to Allpar. What are your actual 'P'-codes?
Are you using the correct 5W-20 engine oil meeting Chrysler MS-6395?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply,

The code is p0335 Crankshaft position sensor 'A' circuit. The motor oil is the same oil I have used for more then the last 5 years. (copied and pasted from their site).

Harvest King High Mileage Synthetic Blend 5W20, Harvest King High Mileage Synthetic Blend GF-5 Motor Oils meet or exceed the requirements of GM 6094M (SAE 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30) and Ford WSS-M2C945-A (SAE 5W-20) and WSS-M2C946-A (SAE 5W-30), Chrysler MS-6395 (SAE 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30). Meets Toyota Specifications, and Honda Service Fill Specifications (SAE 5W-20, SAE 5W-30 and SAE 10W-30). All grades meet or exceed API Service Category SN, SM, SL, or SJ and comply with ILSAC GF-5 requirements.
 

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Where did you get the sensors? If not genuine Mopar, THAT could be the problem. Aftermarket parts are a crap shoot when it comes to sensors.
 
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Thanks for the response,
the replacement was a duralast from autpzone (sunday problems).. I figured it might have been the issue so I swapped back in the original. Still getting the same result on the scanner (high base spark). It's hard to track down because once the engine warms up it won't throw the code, but the base spark never drops into spec.

The motor has never been broken into, the only drivetrain work done was a CVT replacement and i have owned the car since new.

I had a crazy thought that maybe the car has been (1 tooth) out of time since day one and the computer had just enough to adjust for it, but now chain wear might be to much for it to compensate. This car has always been a dog on the bottom end, and never great on the rest of the curve (never felt anything close to the advertised 175HP, my old 2.2 dodges would have smoked it). I just summed it up to the CVT. BUT now as I look back it acts just like a mazda I did a timing belt on and had 1 tooth off. I am sure this isn't the case but stranger things happen..
 

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I usually stay away from Duralast as I have had issues with non-OEM parts. They say 'OE-style' and 'OE-design', but not 'OEM'.
Are the cam sensors Duralast also?

There are some OEM comments that I can agree with (apparently not everyone will experience problems, but I did):

Worked for 7 days
Worked for 7 days the started giving me issues again. Getting OEM sensor instead I knew I was making a mistake going with AutoZone.

This product did not work.
I put a lot of time and effort to put the new sensor in. Once I completed the job, my Jeep would not start at all. I put the old one back in just to make sure and the Jeep started right up. I went back to the store with the sensor and got another one, thinking o had just grabbed a faulty one. Once I put the second one in there, I had the same problem of the Jeep not starting again, so I put the old one back in again and like the first time, the motor turned over. I still have to bring the second sensor back, but plan on getting an oem from the dealership.

Didn’t work at all.
Replaced sensor with new one and ran worse than the old one Went it another auto parts store got a new on and worked fine .

The 'Possible Causes' for P0335 are almost all electrical.

Possible Causes:
INTERMITTENT DTC
(F855) 5 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT SHORTED TO VOLTAGE
(K24) CKP SIGNAL CIRCUIT SHORTED TO VOLTAGE
(F855) 5 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT SHORTED TO GROUND
(K24) CKP SIGNAL CIRCUIT SHORTED TO GROUND
(F855) 5 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT SHORTED TO THE (K24) CKP SIGNAL CIRCUIT
(F855) 5 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT SHORTED TO THE (K900) SENSOR GROUND CIRCUIT (K24) CKP SIGNAL CIRCUIT SHORTED TO THE (K900) SENSOR GROUND CIRCUIT (F855) 5 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT OPEN OR HIGH RESISTANCE
(K24) CKP SIGNAL CIRCUIT OPEN OR HIGH RESISTANCE
(K900) SENSOR GROUND CIRCUIT OPEN OR HIGH RESISTANCE
CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR
POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM)

The DTC lists are on p. 9-1. There is a Pre-diagnostic section on p. 9-913 and a Cranks but does not start on p. 9-919 and Hard start - Fuel on p. 9-922 here:
http://oskin.ru/pub/chrysler-dodge/manuals/Service Manuals/2007_PM_Caliber/2007-PM-SM.pdf

Is P0335 the only fault code that you have at this time? There have been engine compartment wiring harness and body ground failure reports. The same frame rail ground and slice issues also affected the sister Compass and Patriot vehicles. Check around and under the battery and TIPM for corroded wires/terminals.


 

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Discussion Starter #7
Great information, thank you very much for taking the time to put it together.

Yes the cam sensors came from the same store so I am sure they are the same brand. Today I will look at the wiring, and also see about getting my hands on some Mopar cam sensors and see if that changes anything. I wish I would have been able to run that active scan before the car acted up and known if the base timing was always off. Oh well, hind sight 20/20..

Thanks again guys, I will keep you posted on findings if you interested..
 

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I think that if you had an engine mechanical (t/chain jumped?) issue, you would be getting fault codes P0016 or P0017. You can test for those as well, if necessary.
 
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