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My wife is a HUGE Manual Trans fan!!! I am not,, as I drove an at&t ladder truck for 30 years, mostly all man. trans... We test drove the dry clutch auto Dart 1.4L first, then found a manual trans in 1.4L that my wife prefered, and test drove it at another dealer who had one. WOW,,, what a different car a transmission can make! Coming from out of our current ride, a 2010 Honda Acord EX man. trans 5 speed, that Dart 6 speed man trans was a pain for both me and my wife! We found it turned the Dart into a DOG of a car below 2500 RPM no matter what gear we were in. It was as if 1st was so short, you needed to shift mid turn just turning onto a surface street. We both agreed that a 5 speed would have been much better, and safer, as with the 6 speed its just one too many gears, with too close a ratio! For instance, you need to go fast, FAST, or get hit by someone... :flashred: :excited: If your instincts kick in while in the panic mode, you shift down one gear, and floor it! Well, if that one gear down shift does not put the engine above 2500 rpm, your slower than a slug with a 1.36L engine, fully OFF boost, which = like 100 H.P. or less, and SMACK, you just got hit as you did not get out of the way fast enough due to that down shift / lack of rev, = lack of GO POWER! Maybe, just MAYBE you would down shift 2 gears, if your brain and hand were fast enough, but that may not even be enough to bring you into that sweet spot, full on 160 H.P. turbo boost. Plus, did that delay in thought, and action of down shifting 2 gears, just cost you your life??? :innocent: (Say shift from 6th to 4th, you might even need to go to 3rd)!

Where as with the automatic dual dry clutch trans., all you do is SMASH that gas pedal to the floor, wahm, bam, it INSTANTLY shifts to the best gear possible to give you every pony that turbo boosted engine can deliver, with no thought what so ever needed on your part,, other than to just "stomp on it" and GO!!! :drive: Bless my wifes heart, she even agreed that as much as she loves to shift, she would give up her beloved manual transmission as she could surly see the safety hazard of an underpowered car, in a panic condition! We also test drove the Mazda 3. Now it had enough go power to down shift once, and still get, some what, the "L" out of the way of itself, but its ride and noise levels were just too harsh, and loud. The Dart has it's competition beat, but that 6 speed man. trans. could be real dangerous if your not really thinking, in a panic situation! With the automatic, we never felt the turbo lag, as, it seemed to always be in the power zone. I just hope it gets good MPG as there seems to be a lot of MPG numbers floating around out there for the 1.4L automatic's... (Any real MPG's for 1.4L auto's out there)?

We ordered a Ralye 1.4L automatic, blue streak pearl, with a moon roof, and near all the options of the limited. (No leather, no TFT, & we hate power seats as they take TOO LONG to move). We are impatientily waiting its arival.

So anyone who has the Manual trans agree with the above?

Anyone know the "usual wait time" for a car to be built and delivered from the factory???

Beachnut
 

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My parents average around 28 mostly city and warm ups on cold mornings.
 

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DaveAdmin
Thanks for the reply, and agreement. I surly do not mean to put down the Dart Manual transmission, as the Ford Fusion eco boosted turbo had the same type of problem. I think it is part n parcel with turbo charged engines, they all have "Lag". They go real GOOD in the boost zone, and not so good out of it. Automatic's in both cars, keep you in the right rev range, "automaticily", and in my opinion, make the car much safer. In my wifes opinion, it takes some of the "fun" out of driving it with out the stick shift...

browens1534
28 mpg city is FANTASTIC! Our 2010 Honda Accord EX only gets 31 MPG highway! With a Man. Trans. and a shift happy wife driving it :)

Our Dart is "Sch. for production", can't wait to get it!!!

Beachnut
 

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If you know how to drive a manual and you are familiar with its gearing, you can select the right gear for suitable power, you don't really need an automatic to do that.

All turbos have some lag by nature, but not all are dogs when not in boost. My 84 Daytona Turbo Z moves really, really well when not in boost, and like a rocket when it is. My TBI Daytona with 100 hp is no slouch, much more than enough power to accelerate in any situation.
 

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If you know how to drive a manual and you are familiar with its gearing, you can select the right gear for suitable power, you don't really need an automatic to do that.

All turbos have some lag by nature, but not all are dogs when not in boost. My 84 Daytona Turbo Z moves really, really well when not in boost, and like a rocket when it is. My TBI Daytona with 100 hp is no slouch, much more than enough power to accelerate in any situation.
Agreed.

You would get used to what gear you need to put the car in to make it go.

I usually drop a couple gears to get the Caliber moving...
 

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If you know how to drive a manual and you are familiar with its gearing, you can select the right gear for suitable power, you don't really need an automatic to do that.

All turbos have some lag by nature, but not all are dogs when not in boost. My 84 Daytona Turbo Z moves really, really well when not in boost, and like a rocket when it is. My TBI Daytona with 100 hp is no slouch, much more than enough power to accelerate in any situation.
During my one test drive in a Dart I had a similar experience as the OP when merging onto the highway. I downshifted a couple of gears and the car took off like a rocket.

Both my Turbo Z and my Stratus R/T can bog down if I'm not in the correct gear. You're right. Its more a matter of familiarity with the car and knowing what gear to select. I think some people hear the word 'turbo' and think that that is some sort of magic pill.
 

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The "off-boost" issue can be addressed like this...

How much power would the car have with no turbo?

Dart: 100 hp/100 lb-ft [around] driving 3,000 lb
Daytona 2.5 T1: 110 hp/135 lb-ft driving [around] 2,500 lb [guessing at weight and power with MPI rather than TBI]
Daytona 2.2 T: 100 hp/130 lb-ft driving [around] 2,500 lb

The K-cars had far more torque with their four-cylinders, even without the turbochargers, and they were tuned, I think, for more low-end responsiveness. They also usually weighed considerably less than Dart, the exception likely being the Spirit R/T, which, like Dart 1.4T, felt like a rocket when the turbo came on, but like a slug beforehand.

The 2.2 -- at least with Turbo III setup -- also seemed to bring on the turbo far more quickly than the Dart. I could be wrong about that.
 

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Daytonas weigh about 2,900 lbs, Dave. They are heavier than most people think. My '85 Catalog says 2,611 lbs for TBI and 2,688 for turbo, but I think that's misleading. And it says 99 hp for the 2.2 TBI and 146 hp for the T1. Misplaced my 92 catalog.
 

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I am anxious to see what the R/T with Tigershark is like.
 

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Truth be told this is a driver talent issue. I much enjoyed the stick over the auto. its faster, more reliable, gets better mileage, has more car control, better driver awareness, and above all makes the car more fun. It just sounds like lazyness has gotten the better in this case. On a side note tho this is a matter of opinion and if you love the car then thats all that matters.
 

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Thanks, Bob. I was assuming Reliant type weights but it's more Sundancy.

I think the 2.5T1 is the most pleasant of the turbo fours -- 2.2T3 probably the most thrilling ;)

Never drove a 2.2T2 or T4.

The 1.4 really does seem to have a dead range below 2,000 rpm... the trick is not to be there. I wonder if the average stick driver would be quicker with the DCT.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks everyone for your imput and replies! We are STILL waiting for delivery of our Ralye 1.4L DDCT . We just SOLD our 2010 Honda Accord EX Man. Trans. for a near $9k loss from its purchase price! So much for Honda holding its value so good! I guess I should have expected it, as there are less than 1% manual transmission Accord EX's built these days. Everyone wants the Auto, in a more "luxuary" type car... We are glad to be rid of it, with its man. trans. lag & surge due to "throttle by wire and computer software problems" that were not repairable per Honda... I guess paying $9K for use of a car for 2.75 years is not that outragious, thats about $3K a year... I wonder how well the Dart will hold its value???

Beachnut
 

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I just ordered my rallye. We were going with the stick but found out you can not get remote start with the stick. Almost a must here in Canada so we went with Auto. Once your used to your car, you would automaticaly shift into the right gear you need. I drove a 6 speed z28 in the late 90's and would drop three gears when I really needed to accellerate.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
rdjlachance

Congrats on ordring your Dart. I am also waiting for mine to get built...

Did you order the block heater? I have been reading that the Dart has some serious starting problems up in the very cold regions, (Alaska Canada). A few reviewers are very upset that Dodge would not "give them for free" the block heaters as it is the only way to get around the VERY cold morning starting problem... I would think if you live in sub freezing temps most the winter, hey, order the block heater! Why complain it is not free, when it was an obvious option that most will not need!

Beachnut
 

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I've always had a mopar in my yard, even if another brand snuck in once and again, the dealers have always gave me the car equiped with a bock heater.(I'm sure I paid for it, I just never have to ask to install it) It is a must here as most of your engine wear would happen when starting your car at -20 degrees. Plugging in your car helps it last longer. At -30 to -35 you'll need a good battery and good synthetic oil to start your car at that temp without plugging in and boy does it rattle and knock until the oil can start moving around. (I would never do it to my own vehicles ) Off to the movies now. It's -24 with the windshield factor. Good thing the theator has indoor parking.
 

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WOW! -20,, and -30 to -35!!! OUCH! :ninja:

I am so thankful you folks can "do" that kind of weather! Amazing! We live at Pismo Beach, CA. Just got back from our usual 3 mile beach walk, shorts, sandals, wife was barefoot,,, as usual. It was the first time I had to wear my sweat shirt, instead of just have it tied around my waist as it got a bit chilly, (59) after the sun set on the water... My wife went back and is down there still, on the beach, metal detecting under a full moon, as there were thousands of folks enjoying the warm Turkey day weekend. (Mid 70's ON the beach, folks in the water, with out wet suits). So thankful you guys can do those temps, as if not, our planet would woble out of orbit due to everyone living in the "easier weather" area's! :runaway: My hats off to you cold weather survivers! :1st:

Beachnut
 

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CNET did a review on the 1.4 mated with the Dual Clutch and gave the transmission horrible marks, comparing it to a CVT! Theirs was slow to respond. Could theirs have a computer problem or something? Review starts around the 4:45 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAfCknkU4uc
 

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CNET did a review on the 1.4 mated with the Dual Clutch and gave the transmission horrible marks, comparing it to a CVT! Theirs was slow to respond. Could theirs have a computer problem or something? Review starts around the 4:45 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAfCknkU4uc
Did I miss something while I slept. Toledo Ohio is not Belvedere Illinois.... If it is, I'd hate to hear what my town in Northern Indiana is named...
 
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